Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
"I'm looking for a privacy respecting vacuum robot" must be one of the most dystopian sentences I've read in quite some time.
I mean there is no lack of dystopian stuff going around these days. But if you imagine someone saying that 30 years ago, that someone would have conceivably ended up in a lunatic asylum. In 2024 however, it's a perfectly valid and apropos question.
What a sad, sad world we live in...
“I’m looking for a privacy respecting vacuum robot” must be one of the most dystopian sentences I’ve read in quite some time.
I think this one is just as good:
Philips changes terms after the sale: requires data-sharing account to use a light bulb...
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR2j-r3pmng (Louis Rossman)
OTOH, "I'd like a TB that doesn't show me its own ads" would've been perfectly predictable.
People were predicting it as soon as devices other than computers started connecting to the internet. Maybe even before that.
I think your best option is to find a used one that supports valetudo
Damn, thats a pretty short list of supported models
The problem is that they are closed off systems; you need to do full on reverse engineering to even understand what you are dealing with; plus there is the fact that these appliances are expensive and, unlike people modding consoles, there isn't mutch gained for the majority of users
+1 for Valetudo! I've installed it once via OTA and twice by FEL. The OTA was obviously a breeze, but FEL wasn't that bad. I just watched videos on YouTube for the disassembly and took my time doing each step. I love the UI and the fact that I can SSH into them just for the sheer coolness of it! I think one great thing about it is that it doesn't affect the software that the robot uses for all its tasks and functions (e.g. vacuuming, mopping, sensors), just that it replaced the cloud and runs it on device.
Thanks a lot, that pretty much what I was looking for
No problem; do note that in most cases you are going to need to open the vacuum to access the serial interface; so make sure you are comfortable with doing that and that you have the necessary adapters... That last one bit me on numerous projects
Never knew this was a thing. Going to try it on my roborock, appreciate the link.
I use a Dreametech L10 Pro with Valetudo and absolutely love it!
It is quite nice to be able to map your whole house for the vacuum in your own cloud rather provide a 3rd party that data.
I might get into robot vacuums again, thank you very much!
This is damn great.
I'd definitely recommended valetudo, but wanted to mention that eufy has some easily repairable non WiFi vacs that work reasonably well with no smart features. Eufy has a rough track record regarding privacy with their other smart products but can't spy without a connection.
You can check out Valetudo. It is a custom firmware you can flash on many robot vacuum cleaners. Think of it as a layer between the robot and the manufacturer's cloud that exposes the robot's capabilities locally thus making the connection with manufacturer's cloud redundant. There is a section with supported robots and instructions on their site making it very easy to install.
Thanks, that looks really promising
Because Valetudo is not a custom firmware, it cannot change anything about how the robot operates.
Source: https://valetudo.cloud/pages/general/newcomer-guide.html
Yeap you are right, custom firmware is the wrong phrase perhaps my fastidious friend :P. I suppose you can call it "cloud replacement" software that runs on the robot after you flash a rooted firmware that allows you to make changes.
Broom
Roomba is an anagram for "a broom"
I thought it was an anagram for “Robo Ma”
This has got to be the most boring dystopia thing I've ever read (so far).
You could get one of the older models where they don't connect to the internet and instead just bumble around bumping into stuff until the place is clean
I have an ecovacs deebot n79S and it just uses a remote. You put it on auto and let it do its thing. The pathfinding isn't great but it does the job and you can manually control it if needs be. There is an option for connecting an app but thats not happening. As long as it comes with a remote you should be good.
I should also add that its easy to clean and pop the front wheel and rear brush out as well as the 2 spinning brushes. The dust compartment slides out easily too.
We have had it for about 2 years so far and it still runs fine.
not the answer you are looking for, but maybe interesting nonetheless... https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-11943-sucking_dust_and_cutting_grass_reversing_robots_and_bypassing_security
Another approach is rather than worry about whether the robot or IoT device is respecting your privacy, set up your network to be segmented with VLANs so that the IoT devices can only reach the internet and nothing else on your network. Then just provide fake info for setting up accounts with the IoT devices.
That mitigates a rather minimal leak while ignoring the gaping black data hole.
I do the reverse. My IoT devices that I didn't make myself get shut out of communicating with anything but Home Assistant.
I'll let them have internet access if there's a firmware update, but that's it. Anything that requires an internet connection to work doesn't get purchased.
.... I may need a tutorial on doing this... My HA works great, but I have a ton of Hue in my house from before and really like the bulbs and stuff... It would be nice to block those off from the Internet... Is that doable on the router or do I need to upgrade my network (been thinking about doing some upgrades anyways).
The easiest way is to put your IoT devices on the guest network and block internet access to the network, but you could do firewall rules if your router allows that.
Or, get a home lab router instead of consumer grade. I went with MikroTik, and it's a great bang for your buck. It's not too dissimilar from Cisco in the cli, but the GUI is nice too.
you need a router and mostly likely wireless APs that support VLANs.
I like this approach cuz it plays ball and can be reused for a number of products. Could have an "appliances" network and make a reusable fake "appliances" identity for any device that wants to IoT.
I've had several brands. I'm sure none were privacy respecting. But beyond that they're all crap. They all break down and end up requiring near constant maintenance. They also don't do a very good job of vacuuming.
Better off getting a half decent vacuum (extra points if it uses bags because.... Bagless is fucking stupid) and for little clean up jobs get a manual sweeper like some restaurants use.
Why don't you get a shark vacuum cleaner. Honesty those make vacuuming kinda fun( it even has headlights!). You can stick some headphones on, listen to some music you like, and you even get some exercise! And you can still vacuum when the WiFi goes out!
Now if you're disabled or something I understand the need for a robot, but otherwise you could save a ton of money, get exercise, and have zero privacy concerns.
Ha, you mentioned my use case: disability. I got my first robot as a 'this is cool' curiosity, and to try and take a bit of the burden of running a household + working + supporting two disabled adult children off my folks. It gives me a small manageable task (maintain the robot) and gives them ~90 minutes of their time back to work on other things like budgeting or meal prep, or relax for a bit after coming home from work.
7 years later (and 6 robot models; run awayyyyy from irobot or shark models!), and they've only had to pull out the manual vacuum twice. Though I prioritize cleaning ability over privacy concerns, seeing as if they have to vacuum regularly, the robot has no value to me.