this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023

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A Boring Dystopia

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Modern apartheid. (lemmy.world)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[+] [email protected] 149 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Israel is a product of European Colonization. It predates WW1 and WW2. After learning more about it, IMO it shouldn't exist as it does today.

Jews and Christians and Muslims lived in the area since the religions were invented, we don't need a European colony to still exist.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 9 months ago

Good luck fitting it all back in the box

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago

Jews and Christians and Muslims lived in the area since the religions were invented

Under strict Authoritarian Muslim rule. The Jews and Christians didn't exactly have a lot of power in the area.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Only a couple generations separate Auschwitz and Al-Shifa. The lesson we can draw from this is that ethnostates will always end in misery

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I think that's the funniest/saddest aspect of all this. My kids are half Jewish. My ex-wife is Jewish so needless to say I am well aware of the complexity of the history surrounding Israel and Palestine.

But damn if Jews have lost the plot.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Agreed, but let's use the term z*onist because there are plenty of Jews who denounce this despicable regime.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago

Even the history of zionism is more complex, and it has been captured by the worst demons of the ideology.

Sure, it's inherently problematic for anyone who values the separation of state and religion, and in a modern political landscape it does read like a recipe for disaster. Based on the old testament and Jewish history however, it's easy to see the romantic appeal of Zion without it at all justifying the terrors of modern zionism.

So I agree with your point completely - I just wouldn't treat Zion as a slur. That said I also don't think zionism in its contemporary form has any legitimate role to play, and it's a cancer on the world like so many isms before it.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago

Well, some Jews have lost the plot, and certainly Jewish communities are not immune to the sociological conditions that drive people towards segregationist politics and even genocides.

That is to say, we all lost the plot, but we love capitalism and imperialism more than we fear watching society devolve into hate, genocide and warfare.

The IDF took to annihilating Gaza like SWAT in the US to COD gamers in poor communities. If that's not a sign to reconsider our priorities, I don't know what is. But it certainly implies we're still savage apes not ready for the big leagues of civilization and exploration.

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[–] [email protected] 133 points 9 months ago (8 children)

We can criticize Israel, while condemning Hamas terrorists

[–] [email protected] 80 points 9 months ago (2 children)

And we can make aid to Israel contingent on future improvements on the treatment of Palestinians.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 9 months ago

(And prosecute the IDF and Israeli state in international Court for crimes against humanity)

[–] [email protected] 23 points 9 months ago

I like this, we should do this, for sure. Nobody can claim it's unfair.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 9 months ago (1 children)

At this point, I would argue that Israel has done more for Hamas PR and popularity than anything in the last 20 years.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 months ago (7 children)

I was pissed off at Israel when I learned that we can't have a single-payer Health Care Program because we are too busy funding the one Israel has. Learning how they treat Palestinians just puts a seal on the fuck Israel deal.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Israel is a little bigger in area and population than the SF Bay Area. We don't lack single payer health care because we are paying for Israel's. We don't have it because our government is in the pockets of those who benefit from us not having it.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 9 months ago (3 children)

We can also condem israel for creating this entire situation

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 9 months ago (10 children)

Do you think if Hamas dissappear tomorrow, those who throw garbage will stop?

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[–] agamemnonymous 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ted Kaczynski made a lot of really solid points, but bombing people, especially civilians, is wrong.

People still cheer for Luke Skywalker though.

Humans are more tribalistic than rational. They pick sides and justify later.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 9 months ago (9 children)

The Death Star was a military installation that had already shown itself to be aggressive with death tolls in the literal billions. Not a fair comparison.

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[–] [email protected] 98 points 9 months ago (1 children)

this combined with the orders from IDF that under no circumstances were celebrations or signs of joy allowed when prisoners were returned to their families; fucking ghouls.

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Calling Israel's apartheid "modern" to me kind of implies that South Africa's apartheid, whose transitional period ended in 1994, was somehow "ancient" or "old-fashioned"... Yeah, you can rest assured that apartheid/segregation always has been far too modern.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

I mean... It ended. Almost 30 years ago. So it's not happening in the modern day.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Also South Africa still has massive problems between white and black people. I watched a documentary a few years ago where I black paralympian travelled round South Africa to see how things had changed and he was stunned that black people live in shanty towns outside major cities still, also the guy was shown a rich area with private security patrols and high walled residences and the security kept coming back to look at him, basically not trusting him there.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago

Intergenerational poverty can be extremely hard to break out from. It isn't helped by the fact that wealth in this planet is finite with most of it trickling upwards.

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 9 months ago

Zionists: "they Made us do it!"

[–] [email protected] 49 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Opposing Israel is not the action of a neo-nazi, it is the action of someone who is disgusted by Nazis.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Garbage and rocks. Don't forget rocks

[–] [email protected] 30 points 9 months ago

But I've been informed by a bunch of friendly folks from reddit that throwing rocks is a highly dangerous major criminal offense, trialed by the military, in Israel.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 9 months ago

Disgusting. Imagine you are walking around minding your business and a Zionist throws his trash on your head.