this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2024

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Privacy

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Finally got rid of telegram, congratulations to me (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 8 months ago by Gooey0210 to c/[email protected]

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It was a many months transition, and it's finally done

Fun thing, you can actually make a backup of all* your messages, groups, contacts, etc. So before leaving you can have all of your data in case you need that one contact or something

The final red flag was as that allegedly Russian authorities were messing with people's deleted messages. Not for the first time there are news that they could read, modify, delete, see location, and etc. Screw it, this is unsafe, I'm out.

Also, these days telegram is really at the state of a pile of garbage, bloated, buggy, and shady messenger.

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

The final red flag was as that allegedly Russian authorities were messing with people's deleted messages.

I don't know about "Russian authorities", but the fact remains that if you can login anywhere and see your messages, then your ~~public~~ private key is stored in the server.

Since Telegram requires authorization from an extant connection, I don't know if that means your public key isn't stored on the servers and it's being sent from the authorizing device, or if that device is merely authorizing the Telegram servers to transmit that key to the new device.

Since they have a full e2e chat feature (Private Chats), I'm going to assume the latter.

So anyone who can get those keys can gain access to your chats.

I still say Telegram is far superior to anything from Fuckbook/Meta, because it's not integrated into everying you do (even those of us who've never once been on Facebook, and yet have ghost profiles), not to mention the Facebook app integrated into Android on many vendor phones.

Even so, know Telegram for what it is - not ideal, just better than WhatsApp, and a step along the path to moving to more secure and privacy-respecting apps.l

[–] [email protected] 39 points 8 months ago (1 children)

then your public key is stored in the server

Did you mean private key?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

I automatically read it as private key, good catch

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

@BearOfaTime Secret chats are tied to a specific device afaik tho.

Edit: yes!

Secret chats are meant for people who want more secrecy than the average fella. All messages in secret chats use end-to-end encryption. This means only you and the recipient can read those messages — nobody else can decipher them, including us here at Telegram (more on this here). On top of this, Messages cannot be forwarded from secret chats. And when you delete messages on your side of the conversation, the app on the other side of the secret chat will be ordered to delete them as well.

You can order your messages, photos, videos and files to self-destruct in a set amount of time after they have been read or opened by the recipient. The message will then disappear from both your and your friend's devices.

All secret chats in Telegram are device-specific and are not part of the Telegram cloud. This means you can only access messages in a secret chat from their device of origin. They are safe for as long as your device is safe in your pocket.

(from their FAQ)

@Gooey0210

[+] Gooey0210 -29 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Comparing telegram to WhatsApp is something really 2015 😅

Now we have many alternatives, and let's just switch, fb and telegram both suck compared to signal, simplex, session, or even matrix (wait for the new matrix' update where they add some new encryption stuff)

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

i use telegram, but i agree that signal and matrix is superior from both(i don't about the others)

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Session was at first a fork of Signal without usernames.

Now by design it uses their own custom tor-like service (instead of just... using tor) and does not support forward secrecy or deniable authentication, so anyone who collects the messages in transit can either find a vulnerability in the encryption scheme, or spend enough GPU resources to crack it, and they have confirmation of who sent and received the message and what the contents of the message are. And is headquartered in Australia, which is 5EYES and much more against encryption than the US. Oh, and the server is closed-source.

Regarding Australia's 2018 bill...

The Australian Parliament passed a contentious encryption bill on Thursday to require technology companies to provide law enforcement and security agencies with access to encrypted communications. Privacy advocates, technology companies and other businesses had strongly opposed the bill, but Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s government said it was needed to thwart criminals and terrorists who use encrypted messaging programs to communicate.

Regarding the 'vulnerability or cracking them later' bit...

Messages that are sent to you are actually sent to your swarm. The messages are temporarily stored on multiple Service Nodes within the swarm to provide redundancy. Once your device picks up the messages from the swarm, they are automatically deleted from the Service Nodes that were temporarily storing them.

From Session's own FAQ:

Session clients do not act as nodes on the network, and do not relay or store messages for the network. Session’s network architecture is closer to a client-server model, where the Session application acts as the client and the Service Node swarm acts as the server. Session’s client-server architecture allows for easier asynchronous messaging (messaging when one party is offline) and onion routing-based IP address obfuscation, relative to peer-to-peer network architectures.

I wouldn't touch it with a 12ft ladder.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Between forking Signal to make their desktop and mobile clients, and forking Monero to make their cryptocurrency... I'm surprised they came up with Lokinet.

Edit: I'm pretty Session doesn't even use Lokinet. So much for the claimed resiliency from "hackers"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Session does use the Oxen network which is the renamed Lokinet, unless they made a change I'm wholly unaware of.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I must have been thinking of their past implementations. Their FAQ says things were different:

Proxy routing was an interim routing solution which Session used at launch while we worked to implement onion requests. When proxy routing was in use, instead of connecting directly to an Oxen Service Node to send or receive messages, Session clients connected to a service node which then connects to a second service node on behalf of the Session client... The proxy routing system has now been replaced by onion requests.

It was even less clear to me because this is what it says in the app itself:

Session hides your IP by bouncing your messages through several Service Nodes in Session's decentralized network.

Not "the Oxen network" but "Session's network."

And then it has a graph of

• You

• Entry Node

• Service Node

• Service Node

• Destination

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

You're not wrong. Lokinet and Session are both products from the same parent company. Lokinet was renamed to the Oxen protocol, and they run all the servers AFAIK, so it would be like tor, if tor ran every guard, entry, and exit node. AKA worthless. So you're spot on, it's a joy to the intelligence community and after the Encrochat debacle and Session stopped using Signal's encryption algorithms and code, I would suggest no one use it for anything sensitive.