this post was submitted on 16 Dec 2023
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Roman history is amazing. Everybody hears of Julius Caesar and maybe Trajan and Hadrian but then pretend that nothing happened after that. Like poof, it was dead, inevitable, Franks and Caliphates are now a thing.
Then when you realise how much Rome had to screw itself over to even get to that point while being struck by famines, massive migratory invasions, the huns while still being in a moderately good shape... That's the good stuff. The story of the fall is a marble being chipped away slowly while telling a beautiful story until there is nothing left of the Western Roman Empire. If Rome had a favorite hobby it would be waging war on itself.
Eastern Roman Empire was alive and kicking until the 1450's and if you think there's not much there then look up Justinian's restoration. They even had horseback archers like the mongols and huns for a while that had to train for many years. Hell, even look at a map that goes back some years pre-caliphate period.
Even as recently as 1912 there were people in the Aegean islands that identified as Roman. I wish there would be a series that would cover the history of Rome properly and not just "CaEsAr KiLlEd gAuLs aNd sExEd cLeOpAtRa" for the billionth time.
It's really a shame that even figures such as the Gracchi brothers (or really any of the pre-Caesar Populares figures) are hardly ever brought up as well, although I guess I can't be too surprised that radical social reformers are being left out.
I've always thought the mid-late Roman Republic was more interesting than the imperial era, and the Gracchi are easily the most fascinating chapter. Noble aristocrats becoming populist ideologues, the increasingly bitter struggle over creaky governmental norms (like their weaponization of the tribunal veto to shut down the city), the introduction of political violence. Very instructive for our current era, imho.
I recently got through "The storm before the storm" by Mike Duncan. Very entertaining, if nothing else, seeing every "that doesn't sound good" pay off.
I want an HBO miniseries on Scipio Africanus vs Hannibal.
Then I want another HBO mini-series on the Flavian dynasty. The eruption of Vesuvius, the first (?) Jewish rebellion, and the questionable conquest of Brittania all happened under Titus. I would love to see a dramatic reenactment of the Romans absolutely losing their minds at how fucking cursed their empire suddenly was.
off topic.
Look up the old BBC series 'I, Claudius.' Based on the Robert Graves novels, Featuring Brian Blessed as Augustus and Patrick Stewart as Sirjanus
I, Claudius is absolutely terrific and I've seen it more than once, but it is incredibly historically inaccurate.
If it's "Game of Thrones"-like intrigue the people want, a miniseries about the Severan dynasty would kick ass. Let's see what we get in just three generations or so:
-Year of the five emperors, with Septimius Severus coming out the victor and establishing the dynasty after a five-way civil war.
-Two brothers, co-emperors, who can't stand the sight of each other with their mother mediating between them, with one eventually killing the other WITH THEIR MOTHER IN THE ROOM.
-Caracalla then gets killed while on campaign by the brother of a soldier he had executed.
-A grandmother putting a specific grandson on the throne, then changing her mind, having him and her own daughter KILLED and replaced with another grandson & his mother.
-The first grandson being, quite probably, the first trans emperor/ruler in ancient history, with immensely, uh, interesting consequences.
-The "Good" grandson becoming a successful and celebrated emperor, only to be killed by his own troops after trying to buy off peace with the Germanic tribes, thereby kicking off the crisis of the 3rd century which would need several miniseries in and of itself to really tell all its tales...
This is so true, the Severan dynasty is so much more intriguing politically than the Julio-Claudians.
Personally though, I’m sick of historical/fantasy political thrillers. I just want a sort of black comedy set around the Year of the Four Emperors and the Flavians. It’s actually absurd just HOW MUCH goes wrong for Rome, with a lot of it just due to natural phenomena or things out of their control.
"A fucking volcano? You serious??"
British history podcast is very nice for the history of Brittania. It covers the whole period and is very accurate.
I wish, so much of history (and especially people talking about history) is just recounting Greco-Roman history or trying to embody it. Even American nationalism feels like Roman nationalism v4.3.
I'm rather sick of everyone and everything trying to connect themselves to something roman or greek, then stopping dead. Everyone and their dog has a latin motto, multiple fields are all but written in latin, and that pantheon is the first and often only stop for mythology names; you'd think Caligula was still out there banging his worries away.
Anyway, y'all should look up my boy Gilgamesh.
you mean like Mike Duncan's The History of Rome?
I finished that one. It's the GOAT history podcast.
Well, maybe you can continue with this then:
https://youtube.com/@TheHistoryofByzantiumPodcast?feature=shared
Robin takes over just when Mike stops. It's a great podcast and it's now reached the point right around 1204AD (spoilers)...
Hope you enjoy!
Currently enjoying it a lot, I'm currently at the Macedonian dynasty. Robin is great. :)
Even during "the Decline and Fall" there was plenty going on that was just people living their lives -- it's not like every place was being pillaged and everyone was being slaughtered all at once. And there were plenty of centuries before then full of fascinating history with lessons for today, and that's just the stuff that we know about.
Here's a good documentary on Cleopatra
Shared this with my wife whose field is classical anthropology