this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2023
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AssholeDesign

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This is a community for designs specifically crafted to make the experience worse for the user. This can be due to greed, apathy, laziness or just downright scumbaggery.

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[–] pomodoro_longbreak 36 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Software Engineers and UX/UI Designers need a code of ethics, like yesterday.

Yes, business is ultimately to blame, but those folks are beyond saving - they will never ever ever put the brakes on an initiative that could make more money legally. Unless there's blowback from an ethics board / professionals in charge of implementing their dark patterns.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Software Engineers and UX/UI Designers had a code of ethics. Digital Research specifically created a code of ethics. (I think it was Gary Kildall who did it.) The code of ethics recommended companies that make OSes should stay separate from companies that make applications. It was Bill fuck-the-community-I-want-money Gates that ignored all that stuff in order to seek market domination (and monopoly power).

A combination of regulatory pressure, hackers, and enshittification from within has done a lot to keep Big Mike from seizing the whole market, but it's gotten pretty brutal multiple times in the last two-plus decades.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Why include software engineers in this? In the large companies I've worked for, the people with the title "software engineer" have absolutely nothing to do with the actual design of something like this; we just get handed a spec and are expected to implement it as is. In smaller companies I always did one-person projects where I handled every aspect of the development process including UX and UI, but my title was not "software engineer". Are you expecting the engineers to refuse to implement a "feature" like this on principle or something?

[–] pomodoro_longbreak 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The title's meaning and weight can vary. So can the responsibilities and impact of an individual engineer's decisions. But there is a longstanding tradition of engineers as gatekeepers for quality and the ethical application of their skills.

For instance, licensed engineers in Canada have a duty to the following code of ethics. To quote the header:

Registrants shall conduct themselves with integrity, in an honourable and ethical manner. Registrants shall uphold the values of truth, honesty and trustworthiness and safeguard human life and welfare and the environment. In keeping with these basic tenets, registrants shall: [...]

[–] Elderos 6 points 9 months ago

That's why in Canada virtually everyone is a "Software Developer". Same job across in the state you'll be called an "engineer".

[–] zalgotext 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Are you expecting the engineers to refuse to implement a "feature" like this on principle or something?

Yes. Or at least question it.

Just like I'd expect a civil engineer to question the plans for that bridge they're building if it seems like it's not up to spec.

Or like I'd expect an electrical engineer to revise the plans for a circuit that poses an electrocution risk.

Why would software engineers be held to a different standard?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I'm a software dev. Given, the shit I work on right now is all internal. But I question the hell out of stupid decisions like this. I'm sure things get questioned on these public-facing apps all the time. But at the end of the day, the business gets what the business wants. Inevitably, we don't have the final say on it, even if/when we push back. And we definitely do.

We should be holding the execs and business leaders that are making these stupid decisions accountable.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

We do, and it really depends on the entire team being ethical to make it effective. If you have an unethical boss, they'll just go find someone else to implement their ideas.

[–] pomodoro_longbreak 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Yeah it's relative... and it depends on your seniority a bit. I do feel like everyone has the capacity to at least question an unethical practice if they see it. Often that's enough to trigger a tickle of shame in the person putting forward the idea, or at least shift the culture incrementally forward.

For instance when I was working on marketing integrations, I eventually insisted that we track explicit consent, and provide an unsubscribe option on all emails and text messages going out. If I'd just "hacked it out" like the harried director of marketing expected, well, who knows

Eventually that same director took great pride in his "clean lists," so it was clear that he internalized some of the ethics.