this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2023
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Why YSK: Beehaw defederated from Lemmy.World and Sh.itjust.works effectively shadowbanning anyone from those instances. You will not be able to interact with their users or posts.

Edit: A lot of people are asking why Beehaw did this. I want to keep this post informational and not color it with my personal opinion. I am adding a link to the Beehaw announcement if you are interested in reading it, you can form your own views. https://beehaw.org/post/567170

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[–] ItsaB3AR 39 points 1 year ago (32 children)

Disclaimer: pretty new to Lemmy a federation (older than this account though).

From what I gather, defederation is supposed to be a function of this whole system, but intended to cut off whole instances that refuse to moderate or are active cesspools. In saying that, I don’t understand Beehaw cutting off two of the other biggest instances. I know they have a weird mentality over there of no downvotes and saw some odd conversations condemning someone’s political views while admitting to not know the person at all (dafuq?).

It seems to me it would make more sense to block a single community rather than the whole instance.

Maybe they want a walled garden, but as new people come in and want as much content as possible to show that this is a better venue than Reddit, to me they give off the wrong message.

Am I mistaken somehow? Anyone able to enlighten me?

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (31 children)

I recommend reading Beehaw’s statement: https://beehaw.org/comment/263590

As it is just text on a screen, I think there are more and less generous ways to read the post. But I think a lack of scalable mod tools (to combat an internet-sized influx of “bad actors”) is a reasonable (and hopefully temporary) rationale for defederation.

[–] ItsaB3AR 36 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Having read this, I get what they’re going for, but also question the venue a bit.

With Lemmy being about federation, it sounds like they want to have a de federated mini Lemmy to themselves where they can decide who is allowed in or not. Not that that is a bad thing, if there’s a demand for it, but I think it’s different than what every other instance is about and maybe would be better as something like a Discord server (or FOSS alternative).

Again just my 2c, I just know I’m looking for a better quality alternative to Reddit, and an isolated instance isn’t my cup of tea.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Eh, I have accounts on both instances. I've appreciated the active moderation on some Beehaw communities - I'd rather discuss LGBTQ issues on Beehaw than other instances, for example. But I also like to see more content elsewhere, so I've got my Lemmy.world account too. It's pretty easy to account hop when using an app. It's reminds me of being a member of multiple hobbyist forums, in a way.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'm still looking for an app that lets me browse using multiple accounts at once. I'd like to have a feed from Beehaw and Lemmy.World, for example. Defederation won't be a problem if I opt in to moving in and out of their walled garden

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

You can do dat with liftoff for lemmy. They have and everything "All" Section where all of your logged in instance in the app is combined into one feed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You can still subscribe to stuff on Beehaw from elsewhere it's just interaction with it is turned off for now. It would be nice if an app had a selector for what account to post/vote as on the fly though.

[–] Corkyskog 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So the question is it turned off for the blocked instances or is it just not visible to Beehaw. If I make a post from Sh.itjustworks, can someone from Lemmyworld see it? Or can no one see it?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

As far as I understand, Sh.itjustworks and Lemmy.World are communicating like normal right now. So users should be able to post to communities in each of those instances, comment, etc. unless that user is using a Beehaw login.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Doing that on Jerboa right now. It's great!

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'd rather discuss LGBTQ issues on Beehaw

Sooo.. I'm nonbinary.. and I got banned from beehaw for talking about my ex pushing their daughter into LGBTQ.

So who gets to decide what issues are acceptable to talk about?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can't speak to your personal experience in getting banned, but judging from your short comment history so far I wouldn't want you on my instance, either.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Yet here we are communicating 👋

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Admins and moderators decide on behavioral standards for their instances, just as it has been for every discussion forum that has ever existed. I don't care to personally adjudicate your experience with Beehaw - I am simply sharing my own.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Sorry did you mean to respond to me? I don't really see how your comment applies to mine.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Seems like the system is working just fine!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's important to remember that federation is just a feature in the end. As an instance administrator, you're absolutely free to choose who to federate with.

I don't see anyone giving Hexbear any shit for not federating with anybody.

[–] Corkyskog 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People are just salty because they have some of the largest communities.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But they're rightfully salty if Beehaw defederating themselves deprives this platform of a big chunk of content and users, especially during this month

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

That's the thing. If someone defederates with you, and you wand a community on that instance. Then you are free to make the lost community in your instance. And if re-federation happens, both community can co exist without problems.

Also you can make an account on the instance that defederated. So you still can view the community you want.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I disagree, they definitely don't want their own mini Lemmy. They want a safe space they are happy with, and defederation the only way they can do that with Lemmy's current mod tools.

Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works make up about 20% of the acitve users in the threadiverse (source). That is a lot, and it sucks, but it's far off from making beehaw an isolated instance.

Imo for now new users should be discouraged from joining Beehaw, lemmy.world, and sh.itjust.works, since all the content can be seen from other instances anyways.

[–] ItsaB3AR 5 points 1 year ago

Fair point. But I will say as a pretty new comer to Lemmy, it is hard to find an instance that you know will be a good fit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I think a thing to note is that their community was here and well established well before rexxit. Rexxit put a lot of stress on many instances and their moderation ability, so it makes perfect sense that they might prioritize protecting their established community from abuse over being connected to every instance that intends to be a reddit alternative. There are plenty of instances they remain federated to that share their more careful moderation.

I expect that some time in the future they may reconnect with some more popular instances, as rexxit slows down and modding tools improve.

The nice thing about federation is you can choose to join more or less connected instances depending on what type of moderation you are looking for.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Choice is the point of federation.

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