cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/8181688
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this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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Anarchism
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Discuss anarchist praxis and philosophy. Don't take yourselves too seriously.
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If the anarchists in the soviet union were allowed power, general plan Ost would have come to fruition. Anarchists have historically not been able to lead mass industrialization in a coordinated way, and have not been able to lead successful military campaigns across territories as large as the USSR. If the soviet leadership didn't protect the revolution from anarchists, part of my family would have died in a death camp instead of being liberated from one by red army soldiers.
But the tankies stabbed the pure hearted anarchists in the back! Okay, maybe the anarchists shouldn't have been idealists who cared more about coops than actually prosecuting a successful socialist transition. Literally read Lenin's interaction with the anarchist prince.
Because its not anarchists job to do that but worker's job, and they are very good at self-organizing.
You say this as if they had multiple chances to do so lol.
The anarchist workers didn't do a good job. The popular front workers did a better job, the Soviet workers did a better job.
They had a chance in Catalonia, a much smaller field, and couldnt coordinate there.
Ah, at least we come to the crux of the disagreement. "Anarchists, babies! MLs, strong!". It always comes down to that, but it's refreshing to see you just straight up say it sometimes, so that people can see it.
Anyway, please take your historic fiction in the appropriate places. I can pull stories out of my ass as well, but that convinces no-one.
PS: I like how you sneaked in that call to emotion at the end. Very manipulative. Love it!
Have you read anything about the failures of coordination among the anarchist militias in Catalonia? Or their failures of economic coordination beyond the local level?
Have you even absorbed the critiques enough that you are in a place to argue against them?
Because this is serious stuff that you should be educated about before you make judgements about it.
I'm very sympathetic to anarcho syndicalism, but it showed its weaknesses in Spain and sectarian anarchists blame it on the USSR instead of learning from it.
It is not socially well adapted to declare "appeal to emotion" when someone is communicating why something is personally important to them. What I'm doing is expressing myself in a normal human way, and you consider that manipulative?
Ah, nice try, but I already told you I'm not going to debate you on the Spanish Civil War. Why don't you go to the places where there's anarchists up for that sort of thing?
You implied that not crushing anarchists would have directly led to a successful genocide. Ye it's pretty manipulative.
I asked you if you've even read anything about it, not if you want to debate me about it.
It isnt manipulative to point out that my family would have been killed if the anarchists won, it is giving you an explanation for why I have little sympathy for complaints by anarchists repeating the "stabbed in the back" myth instead of actually digging into the history of their project and learning from its failures to do better next time.
That's how they get you! taps forehead
lol, yea it is. You don't have any idea what would have happened if the anarchists won. Maybe they Spanish revolution would have worked without the backstab and Hitler would have expended himself. Who the fuck knows. It's pretty manipulative to posit a major historical event going completely differently would have worked out the same way except that it would have led this one really horrible thing which everyone has an emotional reaction to. Cmon...
If the goal is to get you to read yes, that is the secret tankie plot, to make you a better anarchist who is able to grow from previous failures instead of acting like an aggrieved post ww1 german soldier.
Were any anarchists talking about the need for massive industrialization at any cost in the late 1920s early 1930s in the soviet union? No? Then if the anarchists were in charge, yes, the nazis would have won and been able to implement plan ost.
Tell me when the novel comes out.
Asking you if something crucially needed to defeat the nazis was even documented as on the radar of contemporary anarchists isnt writing a novel.
This is the same USSR that invaded poland alongside nazi germany in 1939 yeah?
They invaded at the same time. That's what "alongside" means here.
The alternative was for the nazis to roll all the way across poland — the only barrier between nazi germany and the soviet union — and subject the entire country to the holocaust instead of half of it, at a moment when the polish government had already fled and the country was not capable of repelling the nazis.
Man what a dumb take - they wanted a barrier from the nazis so decided to move their border closer.
So when they rounded up and murdered the polish intelligentsia, that was to stop the nazis yeah?
...further away from their capital and all their cities and infrastructure?
I notice you ignored the part where the USSR murdered an estimated 65,000 poles.
If you masturbate any more furiously in this thread you might faint from dehydration.
Only about everything else, one-handedly.
I mean you are the one who has left your containment instance to fight over a meme.
I like it
I love it
It's funny that
It's ironic that
It's interesting that
Reddit-brained smug enlightened centrist liberals like yourself try to mask your rage with tedious "totally not mad" sentence openers.
I don't even need to check what instance you come from hexie