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"Astronomically".
This is like making fun of a fireman using a bucket of water that's twice as large as your bucket to put out a house fire.
They pay twice as much in taxes. Vs the ludicrous cost of most basic citizen necessities in the United States .
Pay twice as much in taxes, you get affordable/basically free healthcare and adorable/basically free higher education(medical school is 2k a year in France). Affordable, reliable long-distance transportation/physical transportation infrastructure, a living and functional social security, but sure. Careful of those taxes you could pay that would cover all basic human necessities plus all major financial concerns until you croak.
As an example, instead of paying $3,000 in taxes per year, you could pay $6,000 in taxes per year, and you would be free to pursue any education you liked, including medical school, for $1000-$2000 per year instead of paying 30k per year just to learn core classes. Good thing you saved that 3k during tax season.
I'd certainly rather have lower taxes and only pay for services I actually fucking want.
You don't want health care, social security or education?
You think that right now your taxes are only paying for things you want?
You'd rather pay $33000 for an emergency appendectomy you had no preparation for than $4000?
Not to the extent that I would be paying in taxes under a socialized system, no.
Lack of perfection is not an excuse for not pursuing improvement.
Implying you would rather pay an extra 30k for a surgery.
There's no "extent". You get the same or better services(France is ranked 7th in healthcare, US is 30th worldwide), but far cheaper.
https://ceoworld.biz/2021/04/27/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2021/
Thank you, this is my point: Other countries are doing healthcare and education better than the US, cheaper for everyone, with less bureaucracy and better results.
Absolutely, considering the absolutely gargantuan savings over time.
It's hardly cheaper, unless you're the type to just pretend taxes don't count
The gargantuan savings of paying 10 times as much for any medical, dental, vision or internal medical diagnosis or procedure?
Yale epidemiologists(and every other research scientist) prove that socialized medicine is cheaper:
https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/
The US would save almost half a trillion a year by switching to Medicare for all.
It's absolutely cheaper, unless you're pretending that taxes are your only expense.
Want to get a be a doctor in the US? 50k to 60k. vs. public education, 1k-4k a year.
Just by going to school in the US, you are crippling yourself financially. Chronic illness? Financially crippling. Car crash injuries? Root canal?
French socialized medicine? A nominal fee for far better healthcare.
Saving a few thousand a year does not offset the tens of thousands of dollars US college students pay every semeste, nor devastating medical debt for anyone with common illnesses, nor millions list in crumbling transportation infrastructure, nor the paltry social security that seniors cannot live on, nor the complete lack of combat veteran support for medical care or housing. Three thousand a year does not cover a fraction of any of these costs in the for-profit US systems.
Ever maintain your car? What is more cost-effective? Changing the fluids and filters annually or buying a new car annually?
The savings are mathematical fact proved for decades by every country using socialized services.
What's cheaper is not spending my money on a Mercedes for everyone on the block
Mercedes - luxury brand that you pay more for and receive lower quality parts and service. That's the healthcare system you already pay for.
But we can pretend they are a good brand for your sake.
The "Mercedes" in this case costs as much as a Toyota Corolla beside everyone chips in.
Veterans could also get a "Mercedes". Your children, your relatives, could each get the "Mercedes".
Your main argument for paying more money is that you don't want to help people. You're paying many times more money for similar or worse services for no reason other than to deprive others.
Please stop arguing with cars 3:
just use healthcare dudes. It's already present in both countries. no need to use analogies or metaphors. i ain't gonna force either of you, but using these arguments isn't going to get either of you anywhere productive.
Anyone has the choice to use whichever healthcare they want to, some French people go to private doctors and pay American prices, some Americans fly abroad for medical tourism and pay those prices.
Regardless of their choice, it is important to have the relevant facts and data out there.
A lot of people respond to metaphors better than dry facts since metaphors are more relatable and fundamentally comprehensible.
Hahaha, I love that out of the thread though, the car metaphors are what got to you.
I mean other stuff did as well, but it's all within the rules.
Their argument was bad anyway.
You can't compare healthcare to cars.
Sounds a lot like "it's not my problem until it actually affects me personally".
I don't know why people want to avoid paying as little taxes as possible when it basically improves the infrastructures/services in their own communities.
That is, fundamentally, the definition of "my problem". If I'm not effected, it isn't my problem, simply by nature of not effecting me. Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make with it.
Because I have little interest in community services and infrastructure.
My man here has decided community services like The Fire Department and infrastructure like The Roads are not important to him.
I mean, when you consider the US government spends more (almost twice as much) on healthcare per capita than most countries with free healthcare, you're literally paying more taxes for it AND you have to shell out 50k$ when something bad happens.
Your only argument is "Taxes bad" even when we're talking about a system that would actually cost less taxes, just because it has a side effect of also helping less fortunate people.
How much more egocentric can you get lmao
And yet my taxes are significantly lower than if I were in any of the countries with socialized systems.
Not unless you're in like Arizona or Florida or other shit low-taxes states full of freedumb.
So unless I pay lower taxes, I don't pay power taxes? Brilliant fucking conclusion you've come to there
Nah what I'm saying is that most states' taxation rates are pretty close to what you'd get in other developed countries.
Except pretty much every other developed country has cheap healthcare and education. The US is truly alone in this, and it shows, because the US also has some of the worst inequalities of the modern world.
Ok and I care why?
Because maybe, just maybe, you're a good person?
Oh and also because pretty much every economist agrees that lower inequalities are better for the economy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sorry, I don't consider the purpose of life to be optimizing spreadsheets.
Ah yes, not a good person even when it would be advantageous to you, sorry I forgot you're actively trying to be an asshole lmao We had already established that, sorry.
Oi, don't be mean—first warning.
Fuck you gonna do bootlicker?
nothing
Once again, it wouldn't be advantageous in the slightest