this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
394 points (90.4% liked)
MeanwhileOnGrad
1424 readers
9 users here now
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
394
Lead Lemmy Developer, Dessalines, denying the Tiananmen Square Massacre and praising the Uyghur Genocide
(sh.itjust.works)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Go to lemmygrad.ml and post about Russia or China. You will read insane ramblings about projections. Somehow the argument is always "look at this bad thing in the west, here is completely misinformed info about your country, look how good Russia/China, skip over genocides you are projecting it is happening in the West, to finish my argument Are You a Nazi?!".
Yougoslavia was created by soviets/russia. His beloved communists. I am super interested in what mind gymnastics he has to excuse that.
He could have gone with Africa or Middle East, much better example of collosal fuck ups of Ze Bad West. But that would require knowledge of history longer than 50 years.
Also crying about Poland. As a guy living in Poland, hearing stories of people that fought in WWII and people that lived in communist Poland, I am so interested in how these first hand accounts are US misinformation.
I was banned from Lemmygrad for statements that were critical of the authority of the USSR, and writings of their savior Karl M.
I was banned from Lemmy.world for anti-zionism. Most of the Lemmy side of the fediverse seems infested with authoritarianism that's as bad as Reddit's corporatism.
My bans from lemmy.ml have all come from literally arguing that there are a solid 150 years worth of academic ideas building on Marx and that taking Marxist orthodoxy as the exclusive socialist dogma in that context is simply ignorant.
I am starting to think that they hate revisionist socialists more than actual capitalists, because it seeks to deny them the thing they really want, which is a justification for violence and totalitarianism.
They're conservatives. Hierarchy is the only way they decide what's real. It's the same tribalist thinking that produced the Lady Hope hoax - saying Darwin recanted on his deathbed, as if that would cancel out the last 150 years of evolutionary biology. They genuinely do not understand science or philosophy, because they don't believe arguments can be evaluated, except in terms of interpersonal trust.
So in their minds - if Marx was wrong, about anything, then the whole business might as well be made-up. It is impossible for someone to simply be wrong. They have to be lesser. They must be undeserving of their station, because their station is the only reason they get to decide what is true.
In this worldview, it is your job to make whatever mouth noises justify that mutable truth. I say "your job" because this is all they think you're doing. This is all they think there is. There is no other force in their moral universe. This is quite possibly the human brain's default behavior, and it is not fragile.
Okay, yes, this was my exact experience as well. I don't recall where I got banned, but I was simply making the point that we should use the best bits of socialism and merge them with more modern systems.
They did NOT like that. It seems so incredibly reasonable, and mild to suggest stuff like this... Like, these people really are the "snowflakes" the right attests them to be.
I posted this before, but I really believe these instances are run by APTs.
It is not the first nor last time that extremists are being used by state-run aparatus.
Leftist fetishism for ideological purism is what will always lead to their demise any time they manage to get any meaningful power.
I liked it when we mostly focused on welfare, education, and safety regulation. Those were the things that really mattered.
The proletariat seizing the means of reproduction and having riotous revolutionary street parties with burning vehicles and smashed windows and firing squads for the sake of ending worker alienation isn't really something that will help anyone with anything.
Especially if you're just gonna top it all off by handing over power to a group of cruel hardasses when you're done, when you've got your fill of raging against the city.
I will always advocate the people leave those platforms and go to other instances. I don't know why everybody moved over to Lemmy.world when people left reddit. I assume it must have been heavily promoted over there although I never saw it.
Been on a smaller instance has only upside, it's far less likely to go completely insane and then get itself defederated from other instances, it does not tend to get DDoS attacks as much, and you can still access all the content on those larger instances, assuming you want to.
I think it was the largest, and people just went to the largest group, making it even larger. That just accelerated the issues with that instance. There ideally would have been instance finding tools that prioritized spreading new users out, but oh well.
Unlike every previous service.
I should have known better myself. I've been around long enough to know that the biggest groups are the first targets for authority-minded people.
Lemmy.world is run by Enlightened Centrists. People who think we should all just get along, and calmly discuss these life-and-death matters, no matter how demonstrably wrong a lie is, or how much bad-faith abuse someone spits.
At this point - any internet community demanding "civility" is a red flag for bad moderation. "Be nice!" means they're not prepared to treat 'stop implying I'm subhuman, asshole' as the justified response to a troll with a rear-mounted boot slot that needs filling. And even then it's a coin-toss. You can spend immense effort restraining and editing responses to complete bullshit, guiding someone by-the-nose through why they're blatantly fucking wrong, while they keep trying to make that personal through chest-beating and snide remarks... and then watch then give up all pretense and spit the worst insults they can imagine over dry criticism of what they choose to say... and see your reports of idiotic directed abuse go absolutely nowhere.
If your rules effectively run interference for bastards, fuck your rules.
I like you.
Seems unlikely they'd do that, perhaps the angle you took might have triggered them. They tend to know their history and cite well, and get lied about a lot, so they're suspicious of people who might get details wrong and probably take them for trolls.
Obviously I can't fairly judge what you wrote but you are at the very least not left wing right?
I'm very left wing. So left wing that I recognize that the USSR was a capitalist authoritarian state with central wealth distribution. Even Marxists can mistake the map for the territory. Marx isn't Christ and Das Kapital isn't a bible, but don't tell them.
As someone who has actually studied political science, they absolutely do not know their history well lmao. They are (shitty) Orthodox Marxists and react quite strongly to being shown anything outside of that 150 year old bubble.
They know a few core historical anecdotes that MLs cling to. But their knowledge breaks down extremely quickly when you try to reduce political science and statecraft to academic first principles, even when those principles intersect strongly with their ML orthodoxy.
They are campists. They form their philosophy around relitigating cold war drama more than anything to do with actual socialism.
What would you have them read to remedy this?
And to take a current event as a litmus test since I don't know you or your bias, do you condemn Israel's racism, zionist ideology and their war crimes etc?
So many things. But I'd start with The Ethics of Ambiguity to temper the autocratic revolution fetish.
(I edited my comment apparently shortly after you replied btw).
I'm not sure why you believe I owe you a litmus test.
There is no right answer to the Israel situation, other than secular unification. You will not find me mounting a vocal defense of any theocracy or ethnostate.
Well, you're not claiming to the arbiter of truth here are you? Hence you have a bias, and as a layman I'd benefit from knowing it.
I appreciate the answer regardless.
You can view lemmygrad and hexbear's modlog. They ban anything they consider "liberal"