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Calls for defederation - Is the idea of the open marketplace of ideas outdated?
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this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2023
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I think you nailed it. These instances can be started by anyone, for any reason, ran any way you want. Just as it is nazi guys right to be nazis on their instance, it's everyone elses right to say no. That is not censorship, it's freedom of speech. The owners of other instances are enacting their freedom of speech by saying "no", and possibly even "fuck you". To cry and piss yourself when other people don't want to talk to you and say "wah wah you want a safe space" is pathetic. If you want a place where you can be as much as a douche you want, go start it! No one's stopping you!
Exactly, and I think the disconnect here is that moving from the type of platform that is reddit or Twitter where those are practically bordering on being 'public utilities', they people don't quite understand the concept that federation allows for everyone to exercise their own rights and preferences and that joining, or being alienated from, a group of freely associating people is different than being banned from a large centralized online platform. They don't want the work of finding or creating their own group...or possibly more likely they just don't understand the environment enough to realize that their complaint doesn't have the same validity here as it did 'over there'.
All very good points. I also want to explicitly state that freedom of speech typically ends when it's causing harm. It sucks having to listen to Nazi propaganda but as soon as they start inciting violence or discrimination (which for them is pretty quick), they can no longer claim freedom of speech. That's not to say we should preemptively ban communities. Just something to be aware of, so we can figure out the line where preventing direct harm is prioritized over being able to say whatever you want.
It also ends when you force me to pass along the message.
On a public forum it's unconstitutional for the government to give a platform to one group and not another (within reason).
For a private individual, it's not 'anti freedom of speech' if I refuse to let you use my copier to print your posters and expect me to go around sticking them up in my neighborhood, whether that's hate speech or your grandma's cookie recipe, you can't force or guilt me into helping you publish content. You can still publish it, but if you want me to use my bandwidth or printer ink or even room on my pegboard you have too ask nicely and accept no for an answer, and you don't get to cry ’freedom of speech' and expect any reasonable person to accept that as an argument.