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this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
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But then when the guy's son picks up an AK and takes revenge he is a terrorist
When you don't provide a political solution to a situation, people will resort to non-political solutions.
They did provide a political solution. The response was a wave of terrorism.
The Palestinian Authority signed up to a peace agreement, recognised Israel, renounced violence but the Israelis continued expanding settlements and their ethnic cleansing.
Which one?
death by aerial bombardment would be my guess.
If he murders the person who murdered his father he would be a murderer.
If he murders random civilians who were unrelated to the incident, then yes. He is a terrorist.
Terror is terror. There is no excuse for intentionally targeting civilians. It's murder at best, and terrorism at worst.
So according to your logic, the Israelian gunman is a terrorist, because he murdered a random civilian based on racial hatred.
If it was unprovoked (likely, but I'll hold out until more evidence comes to light), and it was a random civilian (sounds likely), and it was based on racial hatred (yeah, that tracks 100%), then yes - this is terrorism. He'll probably only get charged with murder because it was only one person, but that's a failing of legal codes rather than moral ones.
But according to your explanation what happened on 7th of October is also not an act of terrorism because it was provoked by years of ill treatment, human rights violations and targeted killings, source Wikipedia, countless of human rights watch groups, etc. (I am not trying to justify the killings that Hamas did at all. What they did was horrible!)
I am just saying that there are double standards when it comes to violence justifications. So Israel is morally right to kill 5 times more civilians and counting, destroy civilian infrastructure, people's houses, create humanitarian crises, but when Palestine is committing some violence that's terrorism.
Don't you see how cynical all this is, human life is priceless no matter religion, ethnicity, the colour of the skin or the sexual orientation of the person! And we should value this equally and not have double standards.
I will also leave this here: https://www.yesh-din.org/en/category/occupation-policies/
Alright dude keep justifying the genocidal occupation while you sit on your couch typing on your laptop. While your at it go have a fucking pumpkin spice latte, might make it smell better up there.
Dude are you watching me? I am sitting on my couch typing on my laptop. While you're out making such a difference, can you also pick up eggs and milk?
On a more serious note, calling it a genocidal occupation precludes any discussion. It's signalling that you believe that Palestinians are starving and dying and are in danger of being completely wiped out. There really isn't any evidence supporting that over the last 75 years except Hamas propaganda.
Calling out a half century occupation and an ongoing genocide does not mean that at all, there is no discussion precluded except stop the genocide and end the occupation.
But good luck to you. Keep flinging shit until something sticks? It’s already all over your face.
It’s not a good look.
People who talk about genocide usually agree with the whole river to the sea thing which is literal genocide.
For anyone else reading who is unfamiliar: "from the river to the sea, we will be free" is a slogan used by many Palestinians that refers to their desire to have a single Palestinian state with no Jews at all. It is a call to violence.
If you're just reading the propaganda and think there's a literal genocide going on, go ahead and read about the Armenian genocide. Then compare the actions, and how many have passed. Israel sometimes has incredibly oppressive policies, but they are far from a genocide and raising that accusation is particularly hurtful given the Jewish people's history of the Holocaust.
Keep going off on random unrelated talking points. If you support the Israeli governments actions and Netanyahu, you are a supporter of genocide.
The whole world agrees that Israel is committing genocide and that Netanyahu is making decisions that are just putting Israeli civilians further into harms way.
If you don’t think leveling whole neighborhoods full of civilians is genocide then you don’t get to participate in the conversation anymore. Bye bye little boy. Grow up.
I don't think leveling empty buildings is genocide.
I think killing an entire ethnic group is genocide.
Perhaps you should learn to value human life rather than possessions.
Recently Netanyahu has quoted from First Samuel 15:3 in a speech, saying, “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. ‘Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys’”
The invocation of this biblical passage serves not only as a historical reference but also as a genocidal lens through which the Prime Minister views the current conflict.
Put simply, Bibi is calling for genocide.
What's the proper and just provocation for legal murder?
If that settler goes to jail for murder as he should in a civilized society then sure, but if it's a lawless society and he doesn't go to jail then what you're saying is irrelevant partisan labeling.
I refuse to not call things as they are; it's called having principles, not "irrelevant partisan labeling".
If the settler doesn't go to prison, he's still a murderer.
Labels without gravitas mean nothing. You call him a murderer, I call him a free man, I'll let you guess which has more weight.
That's exactly why the IDF is functionally a terrorist organization. A terrorist organization that mandates service of citizens no less. Despicable.
Your point would hold more weight if this was the only example of such an incident. His father wasn't the first person he knew who was killed by an Israeli soldier...the same group that's kept him behind barbed wire fences his whole life.
I'm not excusing it but you're way oversimplifying it. How could you blame a kid for demonizing all Israelis with all that he's seen? It's not like he's been allowed to mingle with the good citizens of Israel even if they're the majority
This is the most depressing part in some ways. Hamas indoctrinates the kids and teaches them to hate all Jewish people and that all are to blame. How do you deprogram them from that, especially when they see so many people dying in airstrikes?
Here's an example of it that seems credible from a decade ago.
https://www.memri.org/tv/indoctrination-children-animated-film-hamas-tv
The members of Hamas who killed and butchered and kidnapped innocent people grew up being taught to gleefully shoot their enemy and that their enemy was everyone.
I can't think of a feasible solution, and I problem solve for a living. It really upsets me that there's just no real path to peace.
You think a kids cartoon was what caused them to hate Israel, and not witnessing the IDF killing their friends and family as they grew up?
You have to be taking the piss.
Not at all. The kids cartoon was propaganda to misdirect their hate. Hating Israel for the IDF slaughtering their loved ones? That's a given. But hating Israeli civilians and Jews for that? That's the propaganda teaching them to direct their hate at everyone else, not just those responsible.
It's very basic manipulation. People who are hurting emotionally or economically are more easy to convince that all of X is to blame for their problems.
It's not oversimplified. It's a statement of principles.
The reality of our world is that murderers walk free all the time. But saying "x caused y and we should fix the root cause of this" is wildly different than saying "can you blame him?" Because the answer to that is yes! You can blame him for choosing violence and choosing terror.
What did this hypothetical boy choose violence over? What should he have done instead?
If you truly believe that violence is the only answer the Palestinians have, then you've given up any hope for peace.
Feel free to answer my question on what other choice the boy has but to fight.
Because the only other option I see in this boy is to die. Either self-inflicted, at the hands or those who liked your father, or slowly by starvation and disease.
I'll answer your question and hopefully you'll answer mine.
The hypothetical boy could choose life. He could work in agriculture, or study, or literally just live his life. Palestinians are not starving on a daily basis, and certainly not in the west bank. He can go on with his life, get married, have kids, and literally choose to move on and not take violent revenge.
Now my question for you: do you support Hamas?
I ask because It sounds like you drank the Hamas koolaid. Their charter literally state that every Palestinian must engage in violent resistance, and have no alternative.
Oh he could just choose life like the drug addicts in trainspotting! I feel so silly not realizing that living under occupation is the same as having an addiction.
He could work in agriculture...where? On the farms that are being stolen from him and his people?
He could go on with life...in the rubble of his bombed city until it's unceremoniously cut short by the occupiers who have killed so many people around him. It's hilarious that you're trying to take the moral high ground while including a that clearly derogatory part about marriage.
You must think you sound really smart right now but you're not having this conversation is good faith and it's painfully obvious to anyone with a brain. "Hurr durr you must support Hamas because you understand why someone living under occupation would rebel" is the stance of a fuckin idiot. None of your "suggestions" are grounded in the reality that Gaza is getting leveled. Get bent, dude. If either one of us is supporting terrorism, it's you.
Why doesn't the boy just take up farming, my dude?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
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The "him" is this the Israeli or the Palestinian? Or both?
I don't "agree" with it (I am just not making a judgment), but terrorism is frequently useful.
Terrorism is a tool used by any revolutionary group to force change to be enacted. It really just depends on if the revolutionary group is successful whether they're called terrorists after the fact.
It's also utilized by every nation to enforce order, but they just don't call it that and they control the media. Terrorism is only called that when it's the tools of the oppressor are used by the oppressed. Israel had killed 22.4x more Palestinians than Israelis had been killed by 2020. I think it only got worse since then, but this is the data I saw first. It's definitely way worse now.
Terrorism is literally the tool Israel used to force their state to exist. They used to bomb Arab homes and target British colonialists in the 40's.