this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
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[–] [email protected] 118 points 1 year ago (6 children)

A lot of people think social credit scores are something society can't function without, but they only started in 1989.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I certainly have problems with the way current financial institutions operate, but prior to the credit score there wasn't a standardized, scientific way to assess lending risk. It was left to a good ol' boy process rife with racism, classism, and sexism. Sadly, we're better off with what we have now, as flawed as it is.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (7 children)

There still isn't a standardized and scientific way to assess credit risk. There are three major companies, several minor ones, and all of them offer multiple products.

IT'S ALL A FUCKING SCAM. We just blindly accept random institutions compiling all of our data and telling a bank whether or not we should be given a loan regardless of our ability to pay it back. It has little to do with income anymore, which should be the only allowable metric. Don't want the risk? Get the fuck out of the mortgage business.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It was so much better before! When being a woman, or god forbid, being black, counted as serious criteria. Oh, and you best be friends with the banker. (Read the part, again, about being a white man, who was well accepted in the community.)

It's not a scam, it's a step forward. Time to take the next step.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Just because it was worse before, doesn't mean we can't also make the NOW better, again.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

i dont see the problem with improving your credit score by sacrificing a virgin to the volcano every year, at least anyone can do it instead of just the well accepted white men

im being unfair of course, unlike modern credit scores tossing a virgin into the volcano doesnt still put minorities at a disadvantage

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

which should be the only allowable metric.

Why? Income is a terrible metric. Regardless of how much money I've made, I've always spent within my means. I've never carried debt, but always has my cc to build the credit score.

The idea that some bozo who spends more than he earns has a better credit score than me just because he makes more money makes absolutely zero sense to me.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

What about those that have sufficient income, but don't pay their bills and have defaulted on previous loans?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Mortgages were, prior to assholes screwing the whole thing up with mortgage-backed securities, seen as one of the lowest risk things banks could handle.

If you default on a mortgage the bank forecloses and auctions the home. This was QUITE rare before the housing crash. The problem was that the banking industry became so lax that they were giving loans to people that actually did NOT have the money to pay for them, figuring that they could just seize and sell the home as they always had. The problem THEN is that mortgage-backed securities were a thing by that point and every foreclosure caused another domino to fall over.

It became a shitshow because banks fucked themselves over being greedy pieces of shit.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If it was a publicly available algorithim, then Id believe you. But it ain't, so I'm suspicious.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

We don't know the algorithms specifically, but we have enough information to have a pretty good idea how it works.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

It's better than what it was. High time to take another look, but it's far, far better.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

It seems to me it doesn't count risk. It counts profitability. It's why it drops when people pay their loans early.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there wasn't a standardized, scientific way to assess lending risk.

Neither is it now. You forgot the 'hidden from public' part.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

And now it's time to nix what we have for something better, just like we did before.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why would you be better off? In the rest of the world you just have to provide proof of income and proof of savings and debt and banks can calculate how much they are willing to loan you for the purchase of a house. Seems to work fine, and I don't have to have pay interest on meaningless loans just to prove that I can.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The problem is that just having the income and savings doesn't necessarily guarantee that you'll be as good about paying back a loan as someone of your same income and savings.

That's supposed to be where the credit score helps, but the current system is so shady that it basically just reads as the ol' boys club system but asking pretty please to pretend there's a formula and method being used.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I think there are plenty of failsafe mechanisms. But most importantly, if you fail to pay your mortgage, the bank has the right to take possession of your house. Those forces the bank to do it's due diligence with regards to the value of the house. Also, if a bank has been too lenient with its mortgages, it can get into serious trouble - the government here enforces pretty strict rules to prevent people from getting in over their heads.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

If you don’t take credit facilities but pay for your expenses in cash, you are considered a risk. Credit scoring based on credit card purchases is akin to being required to be spied on every step of the way just so you can access what you practically can without the credit in the first place. I don’t have a problem with people who are fine with that kind of behavior. But there should be a way of fair assessment even if you pay in cash.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Yeah. It's really changed a lot...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

At one time you walked into a bank, showed how much money you made, and got a home loan.

But that allowed too many Black people to buy homes, so credit scores were invented as a way to discriminate against people using a black box with no real published metric.

Yay for redlining under a different name!

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's funny how the other person who replied to me said credit scores are actually the solution to racism. I think you're the one who's right it's just funny. I'd like to take this opportunity to say it's retarded that you can pay rent for years but not be approved for a mortgage with equal or lesser payments.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Nobody said credit scores were the solution. They were merely a step forward.

Young liberals: "It's not good enough or fast enough! NOW!!!"

I'll take what I can get, even if it takes some time.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

"Young liberals" are why we got the fucking civil rights act, ya fuckin' dink.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

It’s you who has held us back, with your obsession with capitalism as a just and fair ruler.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You're showing way too much faith in the institutions that invented the red lining in the first place to imply that the ol' boys club system wasn't waaaaay more rife with systemic racism.

The post war recovery laws were literally lobbied to specifically exclude black folks, but sure, home buying was easier for them then than it was post credit scores.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Don't forget about Homeowners Associations! Redlining in another form.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think you know what social credit score means.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

This thread is full of people who don't know what they're talking about. I mean the whole thread is based on the implication that the credit bureaus are a government program.

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