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Epic Games is laying off about 830 employees, divesting Bandcamp
(www.reuters.com)
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this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2023
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It's so cool how they're shedding employees when their game store doesn't even have basic features like product reviews
I really don't understand how people still hang on to defending EGS. It's been shit since release, it's still missing basic features years later, and it's been found doing tons of shady shit.
I'm all for more competition in these spaces, because, you know, competition pushes the companies to one up each other and build compelling features. But EGS is just blatantly missing shit and is explicitly user-hostile by buying exclusivity to their vastly inferior platform. Steam hasn't had to react at all because they're still so far ahead, and Epic is just fucking trolling users by forcing them onto their platform without working cloud saves or even non-buggy installs.
The irony that they flag-wave "user choice" while doing this just totally baffles me.
But they are great for indie developers. They've done a lot to serve the indie community by buying their games and distributing them as a free game. It gets indie studios out of the hole and into the public eye.
EGS itself is a graveyard for indie games, game discovery is complete shit and they have no plans on improving it..
Steam has great features to advertise indie games such as dedicated events and such so a lot of indie hits have come from it, like Valheim, Fall Guys, Among Us, Terraria, Stardew Valley, Rimworld, Factorio, The Forest, etc.
It may have been great, but not in a sustainable way.
For Epic those exclusive contracts were part of their advertising budget.
I honestly wonder how many indie games that started as an epic exclusive are still around today because of that exclusivity deal or if they only survived because eventually the exclusivity expire and they were able to list on other platforms
You don't have to love them but they're still the closest thing to any competition at all. You can complain but they're most likely to improve if they're profitable, and it would definitely hurt end users if they shut down. I get the "buying exclusivity" complaint, but honestly it's fucking impossible to get a foothold, I would do the same thing if I were them.
That's arguably true. But as I said above, the only reason competition is good is if it actually is a reasonable alternative and the companies and products they're competing with have to make changes to keep customers, which in turn benefits customers of both platforms. Steam hasn't had to do a thing to deal with EGS. It's brought no benefits so it serves no purpose Because of this, GOG is better competition in many ways.
On the other hand, as I said above, it has brought many disadvantages and actively harmed customers with unclear game ratings, lack of things like cloud save, fragmentation in their game libraries, and legitimately broken games and wastes of money.
How would this hurt customers? There wouldn't be EGS exclusives. People would have consolidated purchases. Steam wouldn't change. GOG wouldn't change.
The only argument you could make is the lost purchases on EGS, which wouldn't have existed if EGS hadn't started in the first place. That'd be a loss EGS created. So it only furthers the point. EGS pretty much only harms customers.
Okay, sure, the company is working in their own best interest. And? It still actively hurts the consumer. There is no value they are providing to the consumer. If there was an exchange in which the company provided some value in exchange for that detrimental action, it would be warranted.
But EGS offers literally nothing but problems to the consumers.
Instead of shelling out millions to shadily buy themselves into exclusivity, maybe they ought to have invested in their platform? I feel the state of the Epic Games Store reflects their view of gamers - mindless moneybags drooling for the latest releases, not as customers using a platform to play games. I don't think we'd be better off with them in the game.
It's not missing features if you want a launcher to launch games and not to accumulate cards and hats.
Even just the launcher is shit compared to steam
Launching game on Steam: Launch Steam, update, restart, pop-up for new games/sales, close pop-up, change page to access library, launch game
Launching game on Epic: Launch Epic, click on shortcut on the left
Yep... total shit...
The fuck?
Launching a game in steam: click game shortcut on desktop, let steam check for updates, if there's an update wait a minute for it to download and the game to launch
Oh then the experience is exactly the same with Epic, don't see the problem then!
I was obviously talking about the experience if you start your game by opening the launcher itself, if you don't then I don't know why people care which launcher their game is on, the experience is the same everywhere.
I have never used the epic launcher so I can't compare
You forgot:
Epic starts an update before it has loaded the UI, slowing your computer to a crawl. The UI now takes ages to load because of the update running. You can't stop the update, that requires the UI which they haven't loaded...
Of all of those only the first one ever happened to me, they have cloud saves, never had an issue with mods... I think you're mixing up the experience on release vs the experience today, native you should refrain from commenting if you haven't used the product in a long time, you're like someone saying "I don't buy Japanese cars because I had one and it had shit power compared to my friend's American car!" and that experience dates back to the 70s.
What makes you think I haven't used it? Sure, cloud saves were added recently ish. They still released and pushed for exclusivity without it, and also had their fair share of problems.
On the other hand, maybe you should refrain from commenting if you are only going to go off anecdotal evidence. There are plenty of people who have had serious problems with EGS. And their support is notoriously pathetic.
A single Google search:
https://www.pcgamer.com/a-bug-in-the-epic-games-store-launcher-raises-cpu-temps-on-some-pcs-partial-fix-is-available/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/u8qhra/psa_epic_game_store_bugs_and_inconveniences/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/f7xfht/epic_cloud_saves_lost_me_my_save_game/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/383150/discussions/0/6637787280779437776/
https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/save-lost-pc-epic-games.2338310/
3 years old
The mod needs to be updated, not unusual with unofficial content
3 years old
All top comments are by people saying they don't have an issue
So, one actual "recent" issue?
By the way, they've had cloud saves since at least 2020.
...if all I wanted was a game launcher, Playnite and pirated .exes are 100% free. Steam at least has features that you are paying for, nobody is forking over $60 for games on Epic just for the privilege of using their shitty launcher unless they are an idiot (or they got a lot of cash to spare I guess).
You might also want to support the devs that bring you those games? But from what you're saying I guess you pay for games just to make sure Valve gets money and you don't care about the people actually making the games 👍
So let me pirate it and then donate to the devs or something. Or let me purchase it directly from them. Why should Epic get 10% for doing literally nothing? People like to focus on Epic vs Valve, but Steam could literally not exist at all and Epic would fail. They don't offer a product that is better than piracy. That's the bare minimum standard they need to achieve and they can't even do that. A pirated .exe + Playnite is an objectively better product than a $60 purchase on Epic, it's just the facts. Anyone that spends money on that store is a fool.
Didn't know pirated games come with auto updates, cloud saving, achievements, working multiplayer (when applicable) 🤔
If the only way your argument makes sense is by being disingenuous maybe you should keep it to yourself...
lmao so features in a store are all of a sudden important now? That's not what you said before, you said all EGS needed to do is launch the game. It's almost like... features in a gaming platform are important. Like I said. Now if only you could take this newfound realization and apply it to Steam vs EGS....
You can set up auto-updates and cloud saves pretty easily, hell there's even some crazy stuff like this for achievements (EGS social features are so barebones, who cares about achievements on there anyway?).
Multiplayer is a given, everyone knows you can't pirate multiplayer games with official servers. But if you were to play a multiplayer game, it sure as fuck wouldn't be on EGS unless there was forced cross platform because you know it will be dead. I notice when I play Risk of Rain 2 that there will be hundred of Steam lobbies while the cross-play Epic lobbies are completely empty. Epic players literally cannot play that game online. Money well spent for the three people that actually bought that game on EGS, I'm sure they are really thankful they could give Epic their 10% cut for doing nothing when they could have just gotten the game for free or on Steam and had a better experience.
Well, it seems they're important to you so I'm pointing out the hypocrisy that's all 🤷 You buy from Steam because of the features, say pirating is better than buying from Epic because of the lack of features, I point out the features they have that you don't get from pirating and now you're still being disingenuous, so that conversation can end.
lol you mean your hypocrisy? You said features don't matter. "All Epic needs to do is launch the game, that's good enough!" But now you are saying features do matter. Which is it? Taking this new stance to it's logical conclusion, Steam would obviously be the superior choice, would it not? Steam has more features than Epic, right?
Pirated games have features that Epic games don't by the way, namely the fact that you own the game and you are not limited by DRM. In my personal opinion that is worth way more than EGS achievements which are completely useless on a store with no social features anyway.
And by the way, no one believes for a sec that you send a single cent to devs whose games you pirate and no, pirating a game doesn't legally make you an owner of said game.
I don't pirate games, I buy them from Steam or GoG like everyone else because I'm not an idiot. I have absolutely zero incentive to buy from a platform with no useful features.
Eh... GOG basically has no features...
It has everything Epic has plus offline installers.
Which will requires to download the game beforehand so what's the difference between downloading and installing right away vs downloading to install later? You can still launch the games without logging in.
It's not 2006 anymore, high speed storage is cheap.
That's a terribly wasteful way of thinking, why can't we just download something once and have access to it forever? Steam allows local network installs and GoG has installers, what's Epic excuse? Don't forget, billion dollar company with 1000s of employees :)
My point is that no matter which option, the data is on your computer, it's no more wasteful to download and install right away vs download the installer and store that data to install it offline later. Heck, you'll need more space with the second option as it requires the installer AND the installed game to be stored.
Me: All I care about is that it launches games
You: If that's all I wanted (implying that you want more) I would just pirate the games because Epic doesn't offer a product that's better than pirating
Me: Well, Epic actually offers more than pirating games does if your care about that
You: Oh now you care about the extra features!
No, I'm trying to show you that their product meets your demands, that's how arguments work.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games
They proportionally have more DRM free games than Steam too...
Then there is zero reason for you to buy games from Epic. That is a function that can be performed for free. It's like paying for air or sunshine. What kind of idiot pays money for something they can get for free?
You just seem to be completely ignoring the fact that I've already addressed all the features you brought up and most of them are pretty useless or are available to pirated games anyway. Certainly they are not worth actually spending money on when GoG and Steam do all those things and much more. Even if you had cash to spare and you just wanted those features with minimal hassle, there is still zero reason to buy from Epic.
jfc I've never seen someone defend so vehemently a product not having features. Epic is a multibillion dollar corporation with apparently thousands of employees, they don't need you to bootlick for them.
I buy my games where they're the cheapest and I buy them so the devs can continue making games, you're pretty fucking dumb to waste money to have access to useless features!
Oh man, I'm about to blow your mind then!
STEAM KEYS
Devs get more money since Valve doesn't get their 30% cut and they are cheaper than the Epic counterparts! It's a perfect solution!
What is the status of Epic's key program btw, is that something they don't have? Shocker.
I literally use Steam Proton, Steam Input and my Steam Deck nearly every day, and SteamVR at least a couple times a month. All things Epic doesn't have. Gaming would be super annoying if I was actually forced to use EGS. Billion dollar company with thousands of employees, btw.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/epic-offers-support-for-third-party-key-sales-but-not-for-exclusives
Eh... resellers have been a thing since 2019?
I literally use Steam Proton, Steam Input and my Steam Deck nearly every day, and SteamVR at least a couple times a month.Oh wow, so you're part of the absolutely miniscule minority of players who need those features, congrats, it doesn't justify all the hate for the alternatives when the majority doesn't need it. By the way... how do you use those features on GOG exactly? 🤔
Linux users, Steam Deck owners, VR players and those with Playstation or other non-standard controllers account for a fuckton of people. Easily in the millions to 10s of millions. If you don't want to take advantage of those features, that's your problem.
If only that info was available somewhere...
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
Linux: 1.82% (going down in August, includes Deck users)
VR headset owners: 1.92%
And there's overlap.
Controllers aren't part of the survey but there are other options to use a PlayStation controller on other platforms... I mean, you use GOG too, you said it yourself!
Most of these companies hire people constantly, then at one point, cut the people they don't find fit or are productive enough.
It's a continual cycle and the "normal" in the industry.
Don't get me wrong, I hate it's the "normal", but it is.
Maybe giving away games every Thursday is hurting them /s.
I hope that stays 100% of my library with them is all the free games. My bought games are on Steam.
Oh no! Having to check reviews elsewhere! The agony! How did people live before Steam having reviews on their platform? 😱
Okay, so where do I go to leave a review on steam for a game that I've played on the epic store, smart ass?
What?
That's completely idiotic.
Leave your reviews wherever you want and check your reviews wherever you want, there's tons of websites to do so, you don't need to leave your reviews where you own the game.
Fucking hell, what you guys want is for Steam to have an absolute monopoly over everything related to PC video games! Here's hoping no one ever takes the helm off Valve and makes decisions you disagree with because we'll be stuck without any alternatives if it were only for you guys!
How old is Gaben? 60? He's obese and has been for ages? Yeah bud, I don't want to be a bringer of bad news but I wouldn't expect him to be in control for the next 15 years!
You literally can't leave a review on steam unless you purchase the product. So your solution for me is to rebuy a game I already own just to leave a review? You don't even know what you're talking about. Enjoy your devil's advocacy because that's all it is.
Is Steam the only place you're able to leave a review? The answer is no. Just leave your reviews elsewhere.
That's probably the worst argument you could come up with.
So your solution for a massively profitable company that's laying off employees, is to instead of implementing a feature the user's request, just shirk the paying customers desires and leave it up to some third party website? What if I don't want a review of the game in general, what if I want a performance review of the game as it runs through that specific launcher? I don't believe that you believe that review sections in stores aren't useful. I think you're just being a contrarian. And I think it's very strange You're going to bat so hard for a company that doesn't give two shits about you, but have fun with all your disagreeing with everyone I'm sure you're getting quite the high.
You mentioned having product reviews as a "basic feature" they should be working on instead of laying off employees, I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to consider that a necessary feature and how ridiculous it is that you're complaining that you can't leave reviews on Steam unless you own the game there when there are plenty of other places where you can leave your reviews.
I'm only disagreeing with people who have idiotic arguments against a product I consider perfectly acceptable.