this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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It's about the levels of freedoms.
Oh, like the freedom the US provides for me to die homeless in a ditch because I can't afford my cancer treatments? Rah rah USA!
yes, the US is also shit, well done
You said:
I explain via personal example why the level of freedom is better in China and your response is "yes, the US is also shit." Well done indeed.
Can you follow conversations irl, or are you just like this right now because it's hard for you to have your prejudices shown to be full of shit?
what, were you expecting me to defend the US?
Well, let's just say it wouldn't have surprised me. But I wasn't expecting you to just readily concede that the US's "level of freedom" is no better than that of China. Especially right after you just used that as a reason why China was "bad," specifically when compared to the US. But if you really are able to see that now, congrats, for real.
That's why I said levels of freedom.
Is the US freer? Yes, unmistakably, you can criticise officials and you have more expression. But are you safe, will you be cared for? No. Is it as free as most wealthy nations? No, not quite.
Ok, well that is something. I think that's good that you recognize the freedom for the average working class person in China to live as healthy of a life as possible without concern for how much money they have or without concern for becoming homeless (like people constantly do in the US). But that you think that is less free than the US, which is "unmistakably freer" because in China there's a possibility you could get reprimanded for criticizing the state... well I think that speaks to some really fucked up priorities. But ok.
Except the State can take anything and everything away from you whenever they want, which happens in China, quite regularly if you're an activist. In the US, they can also do this, true, but at the risk of causing mass civil disobedience, rioting, and protesting.
Fact remains is that these are both deeply flawed countries where it's wealth over health. In your opinion, what's a good country we should all strive to be like?
Not according to the people I've known from China who have told me that the state almost never does anything like that to individuals (excepting billionaires who used their money to harm people) but will crack down on corporations, and that is just the opposite of what the US does. Look at the founding members of the BLM movement in Ferguson. Murdered. Wasn't one ruled a suicide who had two shots to the back of their skull with their car set on fire while they were in it? Or Fred Hampton of the Black Panthers who was shot to death in his hotel room bed by cops? I think you have it a little backwards. But yes, both countries are flawed (one much more than the other if you're just a regular person and not a billionaire).
As for your last question, that's easy. Cuba.
Do you have sources for those death claims?
Fred Hampton's murder is common knowledge, you can just google it (and keep in mind the US propaganda machine bias with that, but it's even still not in question the cops just bust down the door and blew him away in bed). As for the BLM founders, a quick search also brought up https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/08/ferguson-protest-leader-darren-seals-shot-dead-burning-car and https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/ferguson-death-mystery-black-lives-matter-michael-brown-809407/ There's also Obama setting the precedent for having US citizens accused of being terrorists murdered without trial in drone strikes. And consider whistleblowers like Snowden and Assange, the latter will almost certainly be killed if extradited back to the US and has already been tortured severely. Look into even just the stuff the CIA has itself admitted to, it's heinous.
I'm well aware that the US is evil. However I'm still on the fence about the US government sanctioning the assassinations of the BLM founders.
It was probably state or local cops who murdered the BLM founders, but it was clearly coordinated assassinations. But no offense, you're still being a bit naive if you think those kinds of targeted assassinations don't happen, sometimes (if not most of the time) with the go-ahead from the very top. Even when it's not from the top, it's still US government killings.
And how about the mass killings of scientists and doctors during Covid?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52568716
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/06/world/asia/covid-china-doctor-li-wenliang.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/02/05/world/asia/china-obits-covid.html
Surely we can come to the agreement that both of these nations are evil fuckers, no?
I don't trust western sources on China because they have a very strong vested interest in demonizing China now. Some of the things I've seen come from the nytimes in particular is straight up lies. I also wouldn't trust Chinese state media reporting on how the US did everything it could to downplay Covid and get people back to work even as there were more waves of death from it. (I wouldn't trust China if they were the ones telling me that, but I know it's true because I lived through it.)
I would bet China does do some nefarious shit at times too, but they are open about it when they take down billionaires, which the US would never do in the first place. I flat do not believe anything the nytimes or the BBC says about China, though. I've seen too much unabashed propaganda from those outlets on things not even having to do with China. No way I'll believe they're telling the truth about their ideological and economic enemy.
To get down to the basis of what I think, yes, China probably does some pretty bad shit sometimes, but I don't think it does anywhere near as bad as what the largest global super power, the bully on the world stage, the US does all the damn time. I hands down believe the US does far far worse, even if there is no country in the world that doesn't have some blood on its own hands.
Shame that's as far as you're willing to engage. I never threw out of your sources.
Willing to engage? wtf I never stopped engaging. And the sources I sent aren't from one country that's making claims about their enemy. In case you didn't notice, the Guardian and RollingStone are not from China. lol On top of that, they aren't "my" sources, I literally just showed you something you could have googled for yourself and found out from American sources.
What a disappointment. I thought you might be a reasonable person for a while there, but that last comment just shows how obtuse you're choosing to be, and how unwilling to recognize bias when it doesn't suit you to do so. Typical, but still disappointing. Whatever, enjoy whatever picture you have in your head for how the world is as told to you by the apparatus that has power over you, I won't try to challenge it. I'm going to bed anyway. bye.
Mate you're asking for chinese sources from a country where the state owns all media.
You already did with your 'levels of freedom' remark, we're expecting you to explain your defense now.
may i do it later? i'm a tired goat, I gotta sleep dude!
Levels of freedom by what metric? Prisoner population? Oh wait, let me guess, skin pigmentation?
Mentioned this already. Scroll down pal