this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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Pupils will be banned from wearing abayas, loose-fitting full-length robes worn by some Muslim women, in France's state-run schools, the education minister has said.

The rule will be applied as soon as the new school year starts on 4 September.

France has a strict ban on religious signs in state schools and government buildings, arguing that they violate secular laws.

Wearing a headscarf has been banned since 2004 in state-run schools.

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[–] [email protected] 148 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I get this completely. This is nothing new for France, they have been blocking Christians from wearing crosses and Jews from wearing kippah's for a very long time, it's only reasonable that the Muslim population gets treated equally. Schools should remain completely secular, I am in complete agreement with France there.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Except abayas are basically just some loose-fitting clothes that can be worn by anyone regardless their religion. It's like banning kimono or sari.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If it's just an outfit and not religious clothes than there should be no problem, right?

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It’s still targeting ethnicities. There’s no denying that these bans have a racial component to it.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'd say it's cultural rather than racial. Putting one culture above others is not the same as putting one race above others.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

Especially since one culture refuses to assimilate when they migrate to a new country. Yeah I'm an American, but if I moved to France or Japan I wouldn't try to change the local culture, I'd try to fit in. If I visited Saudi Arabia, not that they'd let me, my pasty white ass is putting on a turban and some robes so that I don't die of sun exposure. I'd be the first person in history to get a 4th degree sunburn. I'm not gonna wander around in short pants, and flip flops bare chested the way I could here in SoCal.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is not. It's targeting religious signs. If your ethnicity can't live with the same laws as others than it isn't not you being ostracized, it's you being dick by forcing everyone to follow your dogmas.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Not everyone who wears an abaya is religious or Muslim. And France doesn’t target religious signs equally, which is why the 2004 law banned hijab but allowed crosses.

And if you’re mad that others have to somehow “cater to your dogmas,” someone should tell the French who visit Algeria and other middle eastern countries and demand wine and pork.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It allowed crosses and other religious symbols, such as the islamic moon and star so long as they were hidden by clothing

A hijab isn't hidden by clothing, it is the clothing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

So are turbans. Sikhs fought and died to protect france during world war 2, only for their children to be told they must now hide their religion and conform.

This is a badly written law and France is in the wrong here with their unique interpretation of laicite different than every other country’s secularism. As Thomas Jefferson said, other people’s beliefs and expressions “neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

Having died in ww2 should not give you full freedom to force your religion on your children

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Plenty of religious people fought and died in WW2. That doesn't mean they get the right to make religious displays in state schools.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I guess this is where we agree to disagree. I view people covering their hair (of either gender) as in keeping with the tenets of their faith and as part of their relationship with God, and you view this good intention as some effort to show off to other people around you. Get over yourself; the state taking this right away is no different than 20th century dictators who force men to shave or ban religious symbols that the ruling class dislikes.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So you're saying the law is completely biased, since the exception fits how Christians commonly display their religion? How convenient.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No problem meaning they shouldn't care about not being able to wear it? Or that the French government shouldn't care in the first place?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

If it wasn't religious sign, French government wouldn't care about it

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (17 children)

How people dress is none of the government's business. This is just authoritarism.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Except when you want it, because you like it when you don't see other people's genitalia. Then it suddenly is the governments bussiness. In this case it's even just for during your attendance at a public school.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I am okay with everyone walking around nude. If you really want skin cancer and everyone seeing your thunder thighs you should be able to. Me personally I am going to continue to wear clothing.

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