this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
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Modern day China is both capitalist and emperialist and has a disregard for basic human rights. It is not in any way shape or form a communist state. Oh, and it actively tries to censor and erase the fact that it ran down its own citizens with tanks.
Do you see how dishonest it is to claim that even slightly criticism of China is forbidden on Hexbear and then when the person speaks to you offers substantial criticism, your counterpoint is that we disagree when you say extremely bad shit about China?
What is a slightly negative thing about China that you feel you couldn't share on hexbear.net?
Listen, yes, I do see that I'm being unfair and dishonest. I tend to pop off without thinking
Yeah that's clear
Kind of rude of you to agree with me
Yeah looking at your other comments mine was uncalled for.
How is China imperialist? The other stuff you're saying us wrong too, but i know the propaganda you will point to to get there. But imperialist? You mean Belt and Road? Building hospitals in Africa?
Let's start with Tibet.
You mean the theocratic slaver state of Tibet that was liberated by the PLA? That's a fine place to start to show that you are just another western left anti-communist.
Edit: I'd recommend Blackshirts and Reds to understand the phenomenon of left anti-communism in the West. If you're serious about communism, it might help you understand the rift driven between you and the people you call "tankies" https://mltheory.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds_-rational-fascism-and-the-overthrow-of-communism-2001.pdf
I will check out the book. I've been wrong about plenty of things before, so always willing to learn
Cool. It was one i found very clarifying when i was trying to learn more about AES and sort through the reality of those countries as opposed to the Western version of them
Download it to my phone. Will read on the bus tomorrow
Most of Hexbear held your views at one point or another - the Uyghur genocide forced sterilisation was my turning point
Yes yes yes, China freed and liberated Tibet by taking it over. Of course. Nothing imperialist about that.
Just like the US has been liberating and freeing all those people in the middle east.
There's a big a difference between the two actions. Let's start with the US. They "liberate" Iraq and Afghanistan and proceed to extract value out of the country. Byzantine networks of private contractor orgs: Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater all making money, along with the military industrial profiteer complex. These countriee were hollowed out for profit and foreign extraction. US empire nakedly acts to make money for the ruling class.
Now, where is that in Tibet? Where is the capitalist extraction? Where is the hollowing out and using up of resources? People in Tibet are now freer, and better educated, and live better lives now than when they were slaves to the lamas. Its not cynical double speak to call what happened in Tibet liberation the way the US government claimed to he liberating Iraq. They freed an enslaved people, that's not an act of imperialism just because it involved an army. An army literally named the People's Liberation Army
You think that China does not extract any economic value out of Tibet? That's pure naivete.
The victorious imperialists ALWAYS claim that their subjugation of another is to the benefit of that other nations. Always.
You don't know how to actually counter what i said because you don't really know about Tibet or the PRC, or understand that while its not yet operating under full socialism, it does have a dictatorship of the proletariat guided by a revolutionary vanguard party. Not understanding these things, yet having an opinion about the PRC is charitably naivete
lol did you copy and paste the definition of Leninism from wikipedia?
No I'm an ML so i don't need to check a wiki, its just straight off the dome. Is it weird that a ML party governs a nation using ML concepts?
I just think it's funny that you're trying to flex your oh so superior knowledge about what's literally 101 level communism.
I'm not trying to flex. That's just the situation in the PRC that you don't seem to respect, since you view China as imperialist based on nothing
Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, swims like a duck, annexes other countries like a duck. But it insists it’s a platypus so I guess we’ll pretend it’s a mammal.
They literally freed slaves in Tibet. How is that imperialism? Was John Brown an imperialist at Harper's Ferry?
Warning: Hexbear emoji
spoiler
His soul is marching on!
Are you saying that China doesn't censor or try to hide this? Can I just go to Tienanmen square and start talking to locals about what happened there and they'll openly talk about how awful it was?
What do you think happened at Tienanmen Square? Because you might want to figure that out before you start grinning like a moron while asking a Chinese person about "how awful what happened at Tienanmen Square was".
I don't understand what you're trying to get at here. Are you suggesting there was no massacre?
Not at Tienanmen Square. Confirmed by western reporters at the scene along with contemporary US diplomatic cables later leaked by Wikileaks. Western media is really attached to that image of the guy in front of a tank, so everyone just pretends it was the site of a mass murder. Really odd.
It's really not that odd.
It is. The only evidence of a massacre of protestors in Tienanmen Square presented in that article is Wu'erkaixi's claim that he saw 200 people shot, but he had actually left the protests hours before the final protestors left, and literally everyone else present (including western journalists) says that the last protestors left peacefully.
Edit: Here's an overview from the former Beijing bureau chief of The Washington Post, who was in Beijing covering the protests in 1989.
This sounds like straight up Chinese state propaganda trying to down play the massacre to the point it didn't happen.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/g36621881/tiananmen-square-massacre-photos/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/03/sacred-day-chinese-remember-tiananmen-killings-by-fasting
You could read the article.
Still waiting to hear where you got that "people run down by tanks" thing.
While we're on the subject of propaganda: what was it that made you believe China "ran down its own citizens with tanks"? What is the actual source of this belief.
"I saw a picture of a man in front of a tank, and we all know how evil chinese people are, so it's not hard to figure out what happened."
That's my assumption, yes.
And other unsourced, unsupported, and racist claims, presented by your local liberal.
Any sources that I provide will be dismissed as western propoganda.
Its not our fault if the information you believe is Western propoganda
I mean it kind of is you guys need to do a better job with the propagandizing.
Correctly too.