this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
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Linus Tech Tips

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Linus Media Group CEO Terren Tong also responded via email, saying he was “shocked at the allegations and the company described” in Reeve’s posts. He went on to note that “as part of this process, beyond an internal review we will also be hiring an outside investigator to look into the allegations and will commit to publish the findings and implementing any corrective actions that may arise because of this.”

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[–] [email protected] 324 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

Wow quick and decisive action by CEO to call in external investigation. Reading Linus' response, it doesn't even appear that he would consider external investigation. He states that HR would conduct a thorough review. I'll be frank, I don't trust Colton to run the HR review.

I bet once this issue is resolved, we might see Terren bring in external subject matter experts to completely overhaul LMG business operations. HR consultants, Operations and Logistics consultants, Finance, etc. Up until now, LMG was/is run by a self-taught/self-made/learning-on-the-job crew. Can't do that when you're now a corp.

Edit: I would love to sub to a channel called TBT (Terren Business Tips) 😂

[–] [email protected] 137 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It is HIGHLY silly to even imply these woes are from a, "learn-on-the-job" crew/etc.

Many of the allegations are about basic factual information being wrong and a terrible work environment.

Those DO NOT naturally show up in any ol' little work environment. They show up when there's a lack of professionalism and basic respect for fellow humans.

[–] [email protected] 92 points 1 year ago (21 children)

That culture comes from a lack of process and experience of large organizations. The second that a team grows beyond 7 people it has grown beyond the direct control of any one person and the culture takes on a life of it's own. If not addressed early in growth, issues typically spiral and are either not caught or are allowed to exist out of a perceived necessity.

Small organizations are nimble so they do not need to formalize cultural and HR processes in the same way that large organizations do. If the leader sees something they don't like, they address it. It isn't just about basic respect. We all bring our own cultural issues to an organization. A lack of professionalism comes hand in hand with smaller creative organizations. That's what makes them entertaining. It also enables the toxic tendencies of some people as they are allowed to slip in and as the pressure builds. Don't confuse professionalism with respect.

These things don't happen immediately either. It happens over time as people get tired and impatient so they are not on their best behavior. We all go through a storming process. That's when toxic culture can set in if good lower level leadership doesn't catch and address it. That takes training and a formal approach to organizational structure, not just production processes.

I am one of those outside consultants.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Toxic environments can also be brought in by toxic leadership. Like a VP that intentionally pissed workers off because "they work harder"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

My sister once worked for a guy who's management strategy was "Employees should be so unhappy that they are close to quitting but just content enough to not quit."

He thought, that way he'd get the most value out of the employees.

Needless to say, his business wasn't going well because all employees were pissed all the time and that's not a good thing when they all have to work with customers. Also, the turnover was really high. But the boss didn't really notice.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I've seen the exact same thing on a company that went from 5 to 50 employees in a similarly short time frame.

The issue happens if you start with a friend group without decent structures or leadership "because we are friends/anyway". This works if you got 5 people but it doesn't if you have 50 or 150. Because you don't just have friends who are enthusiastic about the mission there, but you have to fill the ranks with people who actually want to treat this like a job. Now the "bro" culture starts to fall apart.

With this size you start to get real issues at work that need to be handled with a correct structure, which you don't have because senior management still feels this is just a startup full of bros.

Bros don't mind working 60 or even 80h/week, every week, because of the mission. Employees do mind. So now you have a workload designed for 60h/week per employee that is shouldered by a 40h/week employee. So either they work 60h (probably without compensation for the overtime) or they cut corners and deliver crap quality.

Same with the way people interact with each other. Bros don't mind some rough jokes, but employees usually don't like it that much if their real concerns get brushed aside with the suggestion to maybe "calm your tits".

When going from startup to real company, you need to make big changes to the structure and work culture. If you don't, an LMG ensues.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Also, and this is key, Linus comes from the boom PC hardware market of the late 90s and early to mid 2000s. He learned at the feet of amoral cowboys in an industry that was peaking right before critical mass. He has only seen bad behaviour rewarded and bad actors escaping consequences. And he grew a brand based on being an irresponsible kid who would say literally anything to get views. As authentic as he may seem remember what he learned and how he learned and most importantly who from. His CEO is one of those amoral cowboys.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I'm still not a fan of speaking as if these are small business problems. They ARE NOT "small business" problems. It is a problem of failed management, full stop, regardless of how common or explanable it is.

Yea, startups and groups of "bros" are highly likely to mess things up in this way, but again... It's a basic lack of professionalism and respect for others. That shouldn't be accepted as "bro culture". It's being an immature twat.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Management is a part of that business and as all small businesses grow they hit a point where they deal with this. It's extremely well documented.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Precisely! I've seen many startups in Berlin that had to fold because they didn't realise soon enough that they can't run a company the same way as organising a group of friends. That, and that products have to make a profit sooner rather than later...

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This reminds me of sexual misconduct allegations in the electronic music scene. When EDM blew up it elevated a bunch of basement dwelling computer nerds to rock star status. Musicians like Datsik and Bassnectar let that status go to their heads and immediately abused it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

At least if it's popularity based like with an artist, people are directly supporting them.

It always blows my mind when f*cking business dipsh*ts start acting like rock stars. Yea, money's attractive to some, but nothing like musical talent! Those f*cking goobers.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Of course, there are many "learn-on-the-job" organizations that have gone forward and done amazing things.

However, while I agree that these issues don't naturally manifest themselves and stem from unprofessionalism and basic respect, I would argue that specialists and professionals in those functions (HR, Finance, Ops, etc) can help establish policies that mitigates and discourages such behaviors. If people can't do that voluntarily, then policies and consequences are enacted to enforce it.

This is why many companies (and I've worked in a few in the tens/hundred thousands of employees) have clear business conduct guideline policies and enforcement, because people who lack professionalism and basic respect for fellow humans are actually quite prevalent in any and every company. I've witnessed a few myself that led to immediate termination of my colleagues.

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[–] Kecessa 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not to say Colton can't do the job, but HR is a department that needs to be independent of all other departments and the voice of the HR manager needs to be considered more important than the voice of most of the other managers because they're the ones dealing with the humans that make the company.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Oh exactly, he oversees many functions that are traditionally held by separate people. You can't juggle those functions in parallel without degradation in quality and proper oversight... Which seems to be the theme over the past couple of days..

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

From what I can tell, LMG has, for some time, run HR through an outside firm (in the leaked meeting audio, he mentions this firm multiple times), so he's probably referring to them rather than Colton.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

So it isn't an external audit. They work for him.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah I've recently come across the same understanding... In my management career I've never worked with a third party HR, so I don't know how effective that model is.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It is useful for parts of HR like properly filing tax forms, employee leave requests, onboarding/off boarding, etc. Basically they can handle paperwork type things, but are generally not so great at conflict resolution and culture type things.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Up until now, LMG was/is run by a self-taught/self-made/learning-on-the-job crew. Can't do that when you're now a corp.

Linus hired an experienced CEO who, I'm sure started these kind of discussions of creating a cohesive work environment several months ago.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Realisticly he was brought in last month so he wouldn't have had time to properly analyse the corporate side of the company. Right now this is the best time or a fresh face on the top who could create change from the top down where these kind of discussions now has real weight behind them.

I think the best way to discourage misogyny is to suspend Linus who would be looked at as the source of it for 30 days and demote Colton who failed in his duties to protect every employee at LMG. Get someone outside LMG to manage Human Resources. Maybe one day that trust might return.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Correction to my original comment: up until 7 weeks ago..

But while I'm sure discussions have been started, having been exposed to new leadership in my experience, it does take a while before new leadership can really roll out required changes. Most of the time spent in the first 30-60 days is to listen and understand the lay of the land (which Terren also mentioned). But even then, grave issues like the ones Madison called out usually won't be known to new leadership until later, unless a report/exposure is made (like what Madison did).

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Most of the time spent in the first 30-60 days is to listen and understand the lay of the land

I heard the smart thing is to walk in the front door, "let that sink in", and then immediately burn everything you just inherited to the ground 😅

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

LMAO

Now I'm just trying to imagine Terren walking into LMG with a sink 😂

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Gen Zers speedrunning why big corporations have the structures they have

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Are you suggesting that Linus Sebastian, age 36, is somehow a Gen Zer?

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[–] gravitas_deficiency 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You know that a cultural and organizational happy medium somewhere between LMG’s YOLO approach and IBM exists, right? It’s not a binary XOR.

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