this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
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[–] [email protected] 109 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Google accounts for some 80%+ of Mozilla’s revenue. Firefox struck a different kind of deal with the devil than chromium browsers, but Google is the one pulling the strings.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bit of a weird thought, but I wonder also if they see Mozilla as a sort of controlled opposition too? As in, keep Firefox around so they don't get in trouble over antitrust or something like that?

[–] merc 66 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Mozilla.org is the corpse of Netscape that Google keeps animated so that it looks like they have competition when they really don't.

The existence of Firefox is something they can point to to say they're not a monopoly. The fact that 80% of the revenue Firefox receives is from Google means that Google effectively controls them. Mozilla has to weigh every decision against the risk that it will cause Google to withdraw their funding. That severely restricts the choices they're willing to consider.

Firefox is only 5% of browsers, so it really doesn't matter to Google if that 5% of users considers using a different search engine. Because of the Firefox user base, many of them will have already switched search engines, and because Google is such a dominant player, many others would switch back to Google if the browser used a different default. So, maybe 10% of that 5% would permanently switch search engines if Google stopped paying. Is that really worth billions per year? Probably not. But, pretending like you have competitors in the browser space and using that to push back on antitrust, that's definitely worth billions per year.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Google makes something like $100 Billion a year in search ad revenue. 5% of that is $5 Billion.

It's odd that people think Google is incredibly worried about having too large of a market share in the browser market (which they don't make any money from) yet their 92% market share in searches is not concerning at all in terms of the potential for regulation.

The truth is nobody does anti-trust anymore (though they definitely should) and the big corporations aren't worried at all about it. Google makes Chrome, Android, and pays Mozilla because they want to maintain dominance in the search market. Which is the thing they make money form. What they pay Mozilla is a drop in the bucket compared to what they pay Apple to be the default search engine on their devices.

[–] merc 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Google doesn't directly make money from their browser, but controlling their browser means they lock in the thing that drives their revenues. They can always test it out against all their ads and make sure it works, putting out a fix if it ever doesn't. We've also seen recently how they're trying to make it so people can't run ad blockers, something they could only consider if they lock down the entire browser market.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I disagree.

Google doesn't "control" mozilla in that way.

They can always test it out against all their ads and make sure it works, putting out a fix if it ever doesn’t.

They could do this even if they weren't funding mozilla. Ad's aren't exactly reliant on bleeding edge web standards anyway. You're thinking about tracking tech, which they don't have any input in for firefox.

We’ve also seen recently how they’re trying to make it so people can’t run ad blockers

Well yes, and mozilla was quite vocal in their opposition, demonstrating that Google doesn't have much control over them.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 73 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Google pays Mozilla in exchange for google being Firefox's default search engine

[–] can 84 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I see that as an okay compromise. Anyone who cares will also know how to change it easily.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And I actually wouldn't have a problem with using google for searches if it weren't for the fact they constantly do the captcha thing when I'm connecting via VPN. Captchas for a simple google search.

I'm not against google making money off of a good product, but they've enshittified it too much to be considered good now.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Bruh, I just checked google.com again after a long time... Damn, I forgot that it was so annoying. Have been using ddg for years — no problem.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Stop using public VPN, problem solved.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A lot of people don't bother with changing defaults and corpos like Google, Microsoft, and the likes are well aware of this which is why Google pays Mozilla hundreds of millions of dollars per year to be the default search engine.

I understand the compromise at the surface level but the implications just result in Google gaining more power and data, making it harder for "alternatives" to replace it over time which puts us all in an a bad situation when they decide to pull shit like WEI.

[–] can 8 points 1 year ago

That's a good point, though I still think the average person is already entrenched in Google. Being the default on an alternative browser isn't really going to make the difference to the average, uncaring individual.

In a perfect world it wouldn't be necessary but on the bright side Google search is already doing enough itself to make the average person want to try something else.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah that's hardly a game changer.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have any examples of how google is pulling the strings at Mozilla ?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For an example, Mozilla being forced to use Google Location Services as default even though Mozilla has its own. I am also a Firefox user but it always makes me wonder what other TnCs forced on Mozilla as part of the search deal.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

go to about:config and type "google"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

For default search.

I'm sure you're aware Firefox isn't in the search market. They are in the browser market and need to fund browser development. They've used Yahoo in the past and will go with whatever deal gives the best value. They could go with Bing if they wanted.

Funding from them does not mean control, and your insinuation is misleading and false.