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At [email protected] arguing against forced conscription is "propaganda" and "misinformation"
(self.yepowertrippinbastards)
this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2025
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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards
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YDI. The first sentence of every comment is literal Russian propaganda. Clutching your pearls at forced conscription during an ongoing invasion speaks to a level of privilege I rarely see, even online. Zelenski is touring "the royal courts," because he's prostrating himself to beg for money, weapons and aid for his country. Wars aren't free, especially when you're up against a global power.
You're playing loose with the facts, and nobody is buying it.
Or would you rather they roll over and go, "Sorry, we're all outta gas. Russia just has more bodies to throw at us"? Become part of Russia? Good thing you weren't in charge of the country, or you would have run up the white flag years ago.
Russia is a country plagued with corrupted authorities and where the draft is mandatory, calling these things out goes against russia government interests too. Remember also that russia started this war, they don't want peace, they are fine with war or they would pull back.
Human rights shouldn't be abolish under any circumstance, there's no scenario under which slavery is tolerated. A government should never draft people by force and neither should arrest them if they want to leave the country.
Some of the countries he visit literally have royal palaces like Abu Dhabi. He's not prostrating, he's been invited by world leaders and having discussion with them to get more founds to his country and his government.
Not when your justification is their propaganda. You're just spreading their disinformation in ignorance, rather than malice. The effect is the same, regardless.
Human rights are not objective facts of reality. They're a social contrivance. Furthermore, conscription is not slavery, and virtually every country with a military has a draft available. I'm thankful that my country, the US, has not needed to use it in decades, but it is still there, and there are real punishments for trying to dodge it (unless you're rich).
So what? He doesn't get to choose the venues; that's just where they are. You think he can effectively beg for money over Zoom while in a bunker?
War isn't fair, and drafts supercede some of people's rights. You can feel whatever you're going to feel about it, but the reality is that we wouldn't need drafts if there weren't any authoritarians with delusions of grandeur.
But there are, and so even well-militarized countries with lots of volunteers still have drafts for times of emergency.
Can you point out the disinformation? Mostly of what i'm saying is that the ukranian government is drafting people by force and not allowing men 18-60 to leave the country with the result that people trying to cross the border are getting arrested and some died trying. As a result i'm pointing out ukrainian government ceo to be an authoritarian ruler rather than a hero that should deserve monuments.
Most countries are police states rooted in violence. US and any other should have no draft, it is not normal or good just because it's there.
I'm just highlighting that meeting the world most powerful rulers in their headquarters is not the same as rooting in a trench.
Indeed if it wasn't for deluded maniacs with power ambitions we wouldn't have the draft, that's why i'm calling them out.
I did. Read my first comment. I specified where the disinformation is, and you would be wise to heed that these are almost verbatim Russian propaganda talking points they use to justify why they should just be allowed to take Ukraine.
Whether you think it's fair for the draft to exist is irrelevant when you're staring down the barrel of an invading country. They're coming, and the draft exists to ensure the country does as well. I am sorry for them that people are trying to escape the draft, but again: war is not fair.
If the draft didn't exist, the end result would be might makes right. The countries who didn't have enough volunteers would lose, and the country with the bigger stick would always be the victor. Human lives would be spared, sure, but at what cost? Living as a conquered people is not defacto better just because you're alive. One need only look at history to see that fact.
Nobody said it was. But that doesn't mean he's never been in the trenches or that what he's doing isn't still vital. War isn't fair.
Since you said "them," I'm going to assume you're including Zelenski. The draft isn't a grab for power. It's not some method of controlling the population. It's a last resort method of survival, and last resorts of any kind usually come with heavy costs, or else they would be first resorts.
So you're not "calling anyone out" or saying anything particularly novel or relevant to human rights when "rights" are a privilege you get from a society that is not at war. War is not fair.
I already replied to your first comment and the others. I'm not posting any disinformation, just because you don't like it or the russian are saying it doesn't imply that what i'm saying is false or wrong.
A country does not exist because of forced conscription. People can defend themself even without authoritarian leaders drafting them by force. Your claim is that ukraine still exist only because they drafted people against their will, you are basically implying ukraine people are cowards and should be forced to fight.
You talk like a villain, wars are fought by real people who die in the most miserable way. I encourage you to watch the combat footage out of this war to look at what is happening.
It's not my fault you can't read and don't get it. Propaganda always has a kernel of truth—that's what makes it effective. That doesn't mean it's a complete truth. It's not my job to educate you, and it should bother you that you're spreading propaganda, not truth. The fact that it doesn't bother you says a lot about your intentions.
LMAO. Sure, Jan. That's definitely what I was implying and not that the prospect of death scares people into running away. That you construed cowardice when I see humanity says a lot about you.
Yeah, I'm the bad guy here. Lol. How many times did I say that "war isn't fair," again?
You're not convincing anyone. I and many others have already pointed out why YDI, why your comments were removed, why what you said is propaganda, and refuted your arguments ad nauseum. If that's not enough to persuade you that you're in the wrong, then you have already made the choice not to learn from it, and I can only conclude that you're spreading disinformation in earnest.
If you believe highlighting human right violations such as drafting people by force and not allowing everyone to leave a country is spreading propaganda than you are a victim of the propaganda yourself. Are you aware that there's propaganda in every country and not just in russia?
"coward: a person who is contemptibly lacking in the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things."
You are just remarking your implication that ukraine people are cowards.
You and I both know that's not what you said. It's in the modlog, and multiple people have all seen it and pointed out where and what the propaganda is and why it was removed. Pretending those preceding sentences don't exist is peak troll behavior.
See that word "contemptible?" Point to where I said or implied that it was contemptible to be afraid of death.
But revisionism and lying on top of not understanding how to comprehend a basic definition is totally on point for you, based on this and other exchanges.
Again, nobody is swayed by your bullshit. Try harder, troll.
If you haven't noticed it there's a screenshot of the removed posts at the top of this thread
You are calling my arguments bullshit and labeling me as a troll, try to be more patient and read more carefully because you are not sounding smart.
I don't particularly care if you think I'm the dumbest fucking person in existence. You've been dishonest, stubborn, and obtuse, so your opinion of how I sound to you is near the bottom of things that matter to me.
Bye.
Sounds like you are projecting hard here. I've explained and discussed all my arguments and you ended up attacking me
Your intentions are good... but very naive. Majority of people do not want to go to the front lines and die or watch their friends die. So most are going to flee if they have the opportunity, and thus the country will fall right into the hands of an agessor who cares nothing about these 'human rights'. It is indeed unfortunate the circumstances has forced the Ukrainian government to rely on conscription to maintain its sovereignity. What exactly would you do about such a predicament?
You are talking like a puppeter. If people want to leave a country so be it. Who are you to control them? Also what do you think they are going to achieve drafting by force people that don't want to fight? They are not going to fight either way, they are losing resources hunting them as a display of power.
Let's say i want to leave ukraine to strike russia at the top of the pyramid: in dubai where russian oligarchs are chilling in their yachts. Ukraine government will say no, you must do what we say and fight in the army. Why do you think it works this way? A government and its people are two different things, people exist and can defend themself beyond governments and rulers.
If both the aggressor and the defender stop caring about human rights you are not fighting for justice anymore
Naive is to believe that every person, millions of them, should agree and conform to your authority.
People need leadership, or they will fall apart into weak groups. People voted in their leadership. And when shit got tough, the leadership has taken action to keep their people safe within the most reasonable action. If the people truely feel opressed, whats stopping then from overthrowing the government and be annexed by their agressor? Its simple, individually, people are scared creatures who will flee rather than fight. But togather, apes are strong. And the people know it, but you cant take out the basic instincts out of people.
Also, you say "why should i go lone wolf and strike them own your own terms" do you really think thats gonna work? If so, why dont you go do it yourself? Whats stopping you? Its not that simple is it?
You are on lemmy, a decentralized and open source platform that has no central authority or leaders talking in a sub that expose mods power tripping. You may believe leadership is needed because historically we always had one but this is a wrong conclusion, history is plagued with wars and atrocities this doesn't mean those are necessary. Leadership got forced on people through emperors, kings, dictators and even these days in our so fair "democracies" the government has to resolve daily to political repression and violence to keep his grip on power.
Trillions spent to empower the government under the guise of security to the point where they are able to tap every conversation you make.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_global_surveillance_disclosures
Doesn't seem like the ukrainian government is insterested in striking russian oligarchs chilling in Dubai, perhaps someone may want to do that instead of go to the front and shoot at poor people bribed into war.
Lemmy isnt being invaded and its users arent being murdered and their homes razed. Is absolutely ridiculous to even compare the two things.
Also, attacking another nation despite hosting your enemy is an act of war... do you really think it is wise to provoke other nations while already struggling?
It's not a comparison is an example of a system that does not rely on central authority
Indeed it is. Just like hows the 195 countries is an example of a system that does not rely on central authority...