this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2025
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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards
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No, I asked myself why am I spending more money to the same conglomerates to receive a shittier product.
It's "easy" to be a modern vegan...if you give half your food budget to Monsanto and Kellogs.
Being an ethical vegan is damn near impossible in the modern grocery market. Especially if you have a life outside being a vegan.
So I can pay top dollar for some shit cheese that barely melts, made by some giant food corp...for what? To feel better about protecting the environment? Why? So that more hicks in Texas can roll coal to their nearest buccees to buy a liter of diet coke in a Styrofoam cup?
Fuck it. The world's going down in a hand basket anyway. If nobody else is gonna change them I'm not gonna disadvantage myself financially before the coming collapse by eating inferior ice cream.
I fuel my pathos into funding a local regenerative farm that I can visit and see the ecology. Sure, ordering food two weeks ahead of time is a headache, but I know where every dollar is going.
This is an Appeal to Futility fallacy, which can render any argument immobile. "Why vote, it doesn't matter anyway". "Why help the needy, my contribution won't fix the problem". "Why continue living, we're just gonna die anyway".
If everyone thinks along your lines, society and the world basically just falls to bits. If the world suddenly adopted my view, climate change is basically solved, the risk of zoonotic diseases (COVID, bird flu, swine flu etc) basically stops, the risk of treatment resistant antibiotics hugely drops, conscious feeling creatures aren't tortured and killed for pleasure.
The worst Monsanto vegies are absolutely more ethical than the best meat, for the planet, for your health and for the animal.
Sure. If.
But it's not going to happen. Ever. The world is doomed and it's a massive systemic issue. Me eating fake cheese isn't going to fix it. A million people eating fake cheese won't help it. It will exacerbate it.
The problem is capitalism and the scale of industrial farming. It's not going to change by people being voluntarily vegan.
do you have a plan to make that happen?
I doubt it
If the world went vegan, deforestation would drop by 94%, which by itself would achieve 23% of the climate mitigation over a 15 year period.
Global farmland would also be reduced by 75%, returned an area the size of China back to forest.
Meat alone accounts for 15% of the entire planets greenhouse gas emissions, and 75% of all food emissions.
It's literally the best thing a single person can do for the climate, so what's stopping you?
there is no reason to believe the land would be reforested
I'm going to start replying in bad faith like you do, single lines that don't further the conversation, ready?
"Petition governments and farm owners to have it reforested".
I doubt it
https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
Imagine you were on a debate stage and someone cited a stat and your debate reply was quietly going up to the mic and going "doubt it".
You're not pithy or glib, just lazy and boring.
I have no interest in debate. I'm just looking for the truth
No you aren't.
this is just another accusation of bad faith, made in bad faith
Nope it isn't, you're wrong. Go vegan.
I am super confused by your comments. It is cheaper to be vegan. I'm on welfare benefits for one person and am able to afford being vegan plus afford food for my non-vegan SO. Your comment about vegan cheese that doesn't melt sounds like you haven't tried more different vegan cheeses; for example if you want vegan mac n cheese you would make a vegan cheese sauce, not throw in a block of vegan cheese from the store and lament how it doesn't melt. I have not needed dairy cheese for my meals, for burritos or burgers or anything like that and do not miss the taste or texture of dairy cheese. I also don't consider vegan ice cream inferior, honestly you sound anti-vegan. Maybe you are just venting in defense but this is pretty much the language I would expect from my carnist family members.
It sounds like you don't care about the morality of veganism (something I care very much about), that you did it more for the environment and once you felt inconvenienced you abandoned it. I do feel sad for you because not only is it cheaper to be vegan, but it can be delicious and you are not harming animals in order to do so. Do you still buy store eggs? I have a family member with about 7 hens and they still have to supplement with store eggs. The abuse cows go through for humans to have dairy (and meat obviously) is unacceptable to me. Yes, capitalism needs to be abolished, but in the meantime animals are dying by the millions every year.
It is very hard to get people to change, but I don't think we should just give up on it. A lot of people do not have open minds about veganism, no one I know IRL was cool about me being vegan. I live in a blue state btw. All I expected was people not to care but instead I had a lot of negative feedback by the people around me. Me being vegan was like an attack on them. I even had one friend recently tell me my chronic pain would worsen without meat and insisted that I needed it, it was disgusting on so many levels. I had been vegan long enough to confirm my pain did not change at that point. It's gotten to the point that I hate bringing it up. And I am tired of arguing with my SO over it, that could really be its own post lol. I really only feel safe talking about veganism online, but that's at least a first step.
for some people
edit: I have been politely asked not to engage in the off topic discussion in this community.
Why only for some?