this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2024
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Leftist here. I voted for Kamala. All the leftist media I consumed argued for voting for Kamala. All the leftists I knew vote for Kamala.
What are you talking about?
Leftists are so insignificant that we don't need to make any concessions to them but so powerful that they are responsible for any Democratic loss.
Leftists are just about the only group that will go around saying they "won't vote" if there isn't a candidate making enough concessions to them. Leftists are a small group but they are enough they could sway an election if they came out and made their voices heard by voting instead of just holding signs and yelling. But getting that to happen isn't as simple as just saying you're against the genocide, because Harris did that and it wasn't enough. It isn't as simple as supporting unions, because she did that and it wasn't enough. It isn't as simple as supporting rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ, because she did that and it wasn't enough.
The right isn't stupid enough to believe that they can get their oligarchy without winning elections, but belief in incremental change is fundamentally incompatible with a lot of leftist ideology.
Democrats spend far too much time and energy pretending everyone to the left of the Democrats are anti-electoralist anarchists.
Yes. You're absolutely correct that what the Democrats are doing is not enough. If the DNC can get that through their thick skulls, maybe we have a chance next time.
You can't just say you support unions.
You can't just say you're against genocide.
You have to make people's lives materially better, and until the Dems choose to do that, we're in trouble.
I'm an anti-electoralist anarchist and I voted for Kamala because I'm not a fucking idiot.
Until I see an exit poll showing that the folks who turned up for Harris were centrists and the left really did sit it out I’m not going to believe any claims to that effect.
There were a few people on the left (with followings on social media) advocating for third party votes because Kamala wouldn’t say that she was going to stop sending money to Israel.
Post election, it looks like third party votes didn’t spoil anything.
Oh yeah, I was arguing with them all the time. I figured they were bots. Seems like they have all dried up right after the election.
Define "dried up". The election us over and the country chose fascism. What else is there to argue about?
Nope, we're still here. sorry your candidate lost! maybe she shouldn't have tossed the 25 electoral points into the trash bin for 2 months right out of the gate. 🤷 If you want votes from the people who are not monsters you need to run candidates who are not monsters. I have yet to see people give a single reason why harris couldn't have shifted on gaza that isn't 'lesser evil', 'trump bad'. never mind all the other issues with her campaign. hilariously she and biden and the rest of the dems don't seem too upset they lost. guess they didnt mind getting trump and losing the senate.
We will all be sorry she lost. Also I voted for the lesser of two evils here. Kamala and I are not ideology aligned. Also I agree with most of your critiques of her campaign, but I think any democratic would have made these mistakes.
Virtue signal harder friend it wont save you. We'll be here if it actually gets bad but the democrats are done as an option given this last campaign.
How am I virtue signaling? Also, I agree, we are in a era of populism, I think this last election showed that liberal policy wonkery does not sell anymore.
Democrats need to change their tact if they're planning on winning any more elections.
you're straight up virtue signalling by definition. virtue signalling is where a person makes statements that identifies them as part of the 'group' they are communicating with in order to make unacceptable actions acceptable.
In this particular case you're trying to soften the blow for ardent progenocide supporters for harris. unfortunately they need to the cold hard truth to wake them up.
You:
Please don't take my response to you in a negative manner I'm just pointing out what you did. You are free to self reflect on it however you wish. If your position has merit it can stand on its own without resorting to virtue signalling.
But in my opinion this exact behavior is why harris lost. people were so busy virtue signalling they didnt support trump and dog piling all their stress onto anyone who told them harris was going to lose that harris' campaign didn't pick up exactly how fucked they actually were over gaza and the economy.
Most people are not like myself, they wont go out of their way to tell you how fucked up something is unless it negatively impacts them. Its why the arabs were screaming the entire campaign but very few others like myself were. instead they saw what was happening and just wrote harris off after comparing her actions to trumps words. Aka: trump may act and say hes a monster, but at least he doesn't lie to my face about it.
Ok, I found this soo funny. I don't know if you know that your doing it, but all your replies to me have been oozing with contempt. Are you for real? Of course I am taking your posts in a negative manner. How would anyone not?
That is besides the point.
When I google "virtue signaling definition" this is the definition I get "the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue."
Do my actions/words still apply? If so, how?
Yes, you literally are stating you voted for harris to signal the correctness of your position on the issue. My definition and the definition you quoted are pretty much functionally identical. People dont like people in their group if they dont consider them morally decent.
Great! Would you agree then that you are also virtue signaling by stating that you didn't vote for Harris?
Not once have i mentioned who I voted for in this thread.
I simply admitted to advocating for third party voters.
Specifically I was advocating for it if you absolutely cant stomach harris in order to avoid the blood bath we just saw. Even gave advice on what conditions it was best to do it under.
The idiots and their zealotry instead of turning out the vote and losing a few votes here and there made it absolutely toxic with your 'lesser evil' and behavior towards people expressing their extreme dislike towards harris. So they stopped engaging and didnt turn out. Losing not only the presidential race but also many senate/house seats as well.
See the difference? I don't need to virtue signal what I did with my vote to make my points.
The fact these idots thought they could demand the votes of people whose friends and family were actively being murdered by biden/harris admin without any fucking concessions by her is absolutely tone deaf and moronic. The campaigns absolutely abhorrent treatment of that community on top of it... 🤌.
Omg and then bidens gaffe about shithead trunp voters and the immediate walk back by literally the entire Democratic party? My god imagine being an arab and watching that... Holy shit. They shit all over your community for begging them to stop mass murdering friends and family. Remove members of your community from events without reason. Get ridiculed and yelled at by supposed allies for daring to speak up on what you want. And everyone is cool with this behavior. But biden makes one accurate statement about MAGA supporters and they're immediately walking everything back.
And as a result she immediately lost 25 electoral points from the get go. 25 points which she couldnt win without.
25 points that in a race this fucking tight she shouldn't have even put at risk with a fucking ask that was literally just 'enforce american law properly' an ask given to the supposed law and order candidate.
Harris was an absolute disaster of a candidate to run, we've been warning everyone about the consequences of gaza for a year.
Everything after that is on many like yourself a d your lack of empathy and acceptance of absolutely abhorrent behavior towards our friends and neighbors.
My contempt you felt? Yeah this is why. The behavior of many Democrats this election has been absolutely contemptible. The lack of self reflection afterwards? Even more so.
Ive seen maybe 2 people recognized and admit to the absolutely disgusting behavior on display. The rest of you dweebs? Nope, its eberyone elses fault! Okay fucking principal skinners.
Wow, this reply seems like it is the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
Are you sure you're also not virtue signaling? I think it's okay if you are. Most people do it (The people who don't, don't have any point to make).
🥱 you can make that argument if you want doesnt change what you were doing. Dont get pissy that by explaining the difference to you so you could see the contrast i had to do some of it.
See, this is why you guys are a pain to have any kind of discussion with. Even if there is a good point somewhere in your ideology, no one can get to it because they have to get past all the non-issue hills you are all willing to die on for no reason.
Why should any one take you seriously if you can't admit that you, along with everyone else, virtue signals? Should I expect more reasonable arguments from you once we start talking though your other points? My bet is no.
Maybe one day I will meet someone who can have a discussion like a grown up and I will understand your side to this. Until then, I will have to assume all you guys are just idiots.
I see no further value in discussing this with you. I wish you luck on your journey.
The value of this conversation was dead ages ago. Shrug
(Most) Third party voters are like cicadas. They spend the majority of their lives immature and underground. Every 4 years they swarm and die quickly to apathy and despair.
Just like cicadas, third party voters will be heavily affected by climate change.
Then we're not talking to you. But a lot of people stayed home and that's a fact
This
https://lemmy.world/comment/13384893
so fix your party? sounds easier than fixing that individual.
Oh it’s you. The one who claimed it was a false dichotomy but I somehow predicted the future.
Let's both watch what becomes of Gaza over the next four years on top of all the other bullshit Trump will pull.
Thanks for nothing!
You're welcome you also noted I never denied it would be one or the other. I said it was a false choice that people had to vote for one or the other.
You were warned. you're welcome for the warning. Im sorry you and harris didnt grasp the breadth of the problem at hand and completely blew the election.
So kindly fix your party or replace them. Im certainly done with them at this point.
That person voted against fascism
Might as well have written in their own name for all the good it could have possibly done.
All the people who didn't vote against fascism.