this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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"If liberals are so fucking smart why do they lose so goddamn always?"
I don't think it's fair to blame voters when it's the politician's job during s campaign to convince people they're worth voting for.
Adopting unpopular centrist policies and aligning more and more with centrist Biden's policies as the campaign went on is just going to fill voters with apathy.
The Democrats, once again, didn't give us a candidate to vote for, only one to vote against. And I think the American people are sick of that carrot-stick routine, the Dems need to actually adopt popular policies.
And the establishment Dems are going to fight that tooth and nail.
Why did you need to be convinced to vote against Trump?
I voted for Harris. Roughly 60% of American voters who are eligible don't vote.
Harris needed to convince those voters that she was either worth voting for, or Trump was worth voting against.
She failed to convince them of either, so they stayed home, along with 14 million Dem voters she failed to convince to vote blue like they did in 2020.
We didn't. Most people did. Candidates running for office are a popularity contest. Biden has low approval ratings, Harris said she's Biden and wouldn't change most polices.
Trump is much much worse, and I voted for Harris in California despite knowing it didn't change how North Carolina or Iowa could have gone.
At some point "I'm not Trump" gets tired and going "I'm just like the guy in office who was so unpopular he dropped out, but I will give Republicans what they want on border policy and appoint them to my cabinet" reads more like Diet Trump than "I will give you policies that sway people away from fascism."
You have every right to be angry, but your anger is pointed at the wrong people. Just like the elite divide the masses with bullshit culture wars, the Democratic party elite want you to blame your fellow voters rather than their unpopular platform and abysmal campaign.
I've seen this attitude repeated ad nauseum these last few weeks, from people discussing Harris with conflicted undecided voters. And your attitude and aggression is exactly what all of them received, and yet you all wonder why people may have stayed home?
People were vocal about their complaints regarding the Democrat's platform, and they were ignored. If democracy is so important, why the fuck couldn't the Democratic party adopt more progressive policies?!
Like, apparently it's completely reasonable to expect people to do what you say with no promise of even addressing their concerns, nevermind actually addressing, but it's completely unreasonable to just choose not to participate in the system?
You're not entitled to someone's vote, regardless of the circumstances. Stop blaming your fellow countrymen and women for not feeling represented, and start screaming at the party who fucking refused to represent them.
Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the Democrats running a platform so unpopular, 14 million Democrats that voted in 2020 chose to stay home.
Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the DNC hiding Biden's mental acuity issues for well over a year, humiliating himself (and our country) on stage at his debate before hastily cramming a candidate the party didn't have a say in, and running her on policies that their constituents were vocally against.
As a trans woman, you're damn right I'm fucking terrified, and I'm fucking angry.
But my anger is at the Democratic party, who decided that spending decades appeasing the Republicans and giving the American people nothing that they've been promised, who knew the consequences of this election and decided a 2016 rerun was the only viable option, who paraded Republican after Republican across the DNC stage while snubbing Palestinian Democrats from speaking, and then sending Bill Clinton to lecture the electorate about why Israel has the right to genocide Palestine.
The Democratic party had fascism at the gates, and passed all responsibility onto their voting base instead of checks notes listened to their fucking constituents.
So don't get angry at your disillusioned and apathetic neighbor, they're a symptom of the system being unrepresentative of the people for so many years.
Direct your anger at the DNC, demand they start listening to their base, demand that they start trying to garner non-voters with popular policies instead of moving further right to appeal to moderate Republicans.
Or better yet, send them letters regularly, like I plan to do, reminding them that all of the awfulness the American people are living through is a direct result of their entitlement and hubris. Maybe throw in their that they could probably get elected if they actually listened to the American people and ran on policy that reflected what they want.
But that's probably too radical, let's just keep blaming the electorate for wanting to participate in a system that represent them, not one that runs on "Please, we promise, last time we're delaying fascism/the other guy, for realz for realz this time, we'll totally enact all the laws, just give us more money you don't have and give us four more years." But, I'm clearly not as educated and smart as the people running the DNC, I mean, I haven't lost 4 out of the last 7 elections trying to run the same playbook everytime,
They just have to run a candidate people want to vote for, not a candidate people have to vote for. But they won't, because the DNC seems to think they know what people need better than they do. And their voting results this year clearly show that...
How much did voter purges and other voter-suppression measures contribute to the lower turnout?
Do you think it accounted for the 14 million Dem voters who voted in 2020 but stayed home in 2024?
I doubt it.
A reasonable person votes against the enemy after a certian point, even if that means electing a fucking banana. Why did you need to convinced to vote against Trump? Why wasnt that a given? One of you answer us that please
A reasonable person understands running the same strategy over and over and expecting different results is literally the definition of insanity.
But it's perfectly ok for the DNC to trot out nothing but the status quo for their voters? After over a decade, they can't promise anything beyond "not fascism" to their voters and the rest of the population?
And I already answered you: Harris needed to convince voters to vot for her, or against Trump. That's a politicians job during a campaign, and she failed miserably.
So now explain to me why the average voter has to keep swallowing a shit sandwich, but the political party that keeps failing using the same failed strategy, why don't they have to change? Why is it so unreasonable for them to adopt more popular, progressive policies that voters actually want?
I'll wait, you can go ahead and explain that.
your response is tone-deaf and meaningless.
this election was an armed robbery and 20 million witnesses just watched it happen because they wanted to "teach the victim a lesson." how fucked up is that?
I blame the DNC, I blame them for dragging us to this point.
I blame the RNC, I blame them for pushing us to this point.
But most of all, I blame Americans that idly stood by and let this happen. You had the opportunity to swing everything blue. had the opportunity to pressure them for four more years. had the opportunity to set the stage for some real change in 2028.
you fucks sold us up the fucking river for your pride and arrogance.
I'm fucking mad as hell, and you want to tell me where I need to direct my anger? Fuck your arrogant idealistic dream. You want me to direct my anger? How about I direct my fucking anger at you? The one who's trying to fucking manipulate me into attacking their opposition. I fucking know who I'm mad at.
fuck you, and fuck those 20 million Americans that willfully withheld their votes. I hope every single one of you chokes on your arrogance and pride when you're fucking starving in the camps those monsters are going to put us in.
This is just ridiculous, it was not an "armed robbery." You don't need to exaggerate to try and make your misguided point.
Even I expected there to be conflict at polling locations, and minus that machete kid, nothing of note made it across my screen.
How fucked up is it to demand someone's vote while telling them they're families lives don't matter? The DNC did that, not anyone else. That's been their whole play entire fucking campaign.
Good, that's where the blame should be.
They pressured them the last two years and the DNC refused to budge on damn near anything.
It wasn't non-voters who lied about Biden's mental health. It wasn't non-voters who pushed him through the majority of the primary while keeping pertinent health information of his secret. It wasn't non-voters who humiliated their candidate, party, and country during a national debate because they thought they could hide his mental health decline. It wasn't non-voters who then pushed through a candidate the constituency didn't nominate, on a platform they didn't want, while suppressing any criticism of the DNC.
100,000 people cast protest votes in Michigan alone over the Palestinian genocide, which is more than the number of votes Harris lost Michigan by. They put pressure on the DNC to take them seriously and heed their concerns, and what did the non-voters, I'm sorry, the DNC do in response?
They had how many Republicans on stage at their national convention, but no Palestinians? They sent Clinton to lecture Muslim and Arab voters that Israel was justified in their genocide because "self defense."
The Democrats have promised "real change is just four years away, we promise this time" since I was fucking born. Guess what? That bullshit excuse isn't flying anymore. Being sold the fucking status quo every fucking election cycle is old, and it's cost the DNC 4/7 the last elections.
So better they just keep fucking using it and expecting the voters to deal, instead of changing their fucking platform to reflect the populace.
Again, that's the DNC.
You all demanded everyone vote the way you wanted, regardless of how they felt. So yeah, I am telling you where to direct your fucking anger, and it shouldn't be at people like me.
Who voted fucking Harris, btw, you fucking twat. Begrudgingly, despite my displeasure with almost everything she stood for. And if you look at my comment history, you'll see I remained adamant that no one should vote for Trump while still trying to paint a fucking realistic picture of the situation.
Didn't realize "maybe the DNC should have platformed on policies that their constituents were vocal about during the campaign" was an arrogant idealistic dream.
Guess I should just settle for the status quo and hope the party that just showed me they wouldn't budge will maybe budge in four years.
You seriously hear yourself think this way, and go, "Yep, it's the people who are wrong, not the party." Fucking serious?
My opposition? This is what's fucking wrong with you fucking children on this website.
You want some hard fucking truths from someone who's supposedly your fucking enemy?
NO ONE fucking owes you anything in life. They don't owe you their protection, they don't owe you the truth, they don't owe you fucking anything.
So when you entitled fucking children scream and shout about all the people who didn't vote, you need to remember that they don't owe you fucking shit.
You weren't entitled to anyone's vote simply by virtue of wanting to stop fascism, so fuck right off with this entitlement that all fucking liberal elite assholes seem to think they deserve.
Harris was not entitled to anyone's fucking vote, she needed to fucking earn them. Which I thought was the whole reason I got fucking 12 fucking emails every day telling me how much they need more money.
But they fucking didn't, and now we all suffer the consequences of their fucking arrogance and hubris. And even now, miserable entitled fucks like you actively make me just want to not vote anymore, because you fucking refuse to try and understand anything from anyone's point of view but your fucking own.
So no, fuck you. Maybe you and the rest of the DNC who seem to know best (but can't fucking win an election to save their life) will understand that you can't fucking win an election without votes, and you can't fucking win votes without appealing to the fucking voters.
That's not putting forward your platform and demanding they meet you where you are. That's putting your platform forward, and then fucking modifying to reflect what your base is telling you they want, like a fucking professional fucking adult.
Career politician couldn't fucking beat a convicted felon fascist who killed over a million Americans, and non-voters are to blame?! Fucking Christ.
Its called a metaphor
Answer me this. How fucked up is it to tell women and lgbt people that our lives are worth less than people halfway across the world who hate us just as much as Republicans. Because thats what you abstainers did.
If you tried for two years and got nowhere, maybe the blame circles back to yall not accepting a clear "no".
It wasnt the DNC either. Biden chose to try to run, against the advice of basically everyone around him. On the other hand, you might be the only person who isnt a Republican to give a shit about wanting a primary. Definitely the first Ive encountered.
See what I said above about ignoring a clear no, and telling the rest of us marginalized Americans we matter less than Palestine.
The reason the DNC doesn't push progressive candidates, above all else, is that progressives cannot be counted on to vote. Why would they appeal to you when they know the moderate conservatives will at least show up.
We demanded people vote against an obvious evil which would be worse for Palestine than Harris. That was never up for debate. The most basic of realpolitik should've told you all to vote for her regardless if saving Palestinian lives was your goal. As evidended by...
Congratulations, you get a cookie. Now why couldnt the other 14,999,999 work that one out?
Wanting the DNC to field a more progressive candidate isnt wrong. Expecting them to do so in response to not voting is an idealistic dream, and blaming them for siding with the faction that can be trusted to show up is the arrogance.
Noone owes us protection, but we owe Palestine? That makes sense/ And, tell me again, which candidate was better for them?
So Im not entitled to anyones vote, as an American trans woman. But Palestine is? You are at best inconsistent, and at worst a hypocrite. And the fact stopping fascism wasnt a good enough sell to earn those votes says more about you than our entitlement
Idk, ask the DNC, they were willing to gamble the lives of women and LGBTQ+ folks because they didn't want to not support a genocide.
So what would you want people to do when their kids/grandkids ask them what ~~they~~ did to stop a genocide? Isn't Lemmy always screaming about, regardless of the reasoning, a Nazi is a Nazi.
So it's ok to force me to support a genocide, rather than shift your party's platform to reflect what the voters actually want?
"We don't have to change, YOU have to get over it, we're entitled to your vote, SCREEEEEEEEEEEEECH!!!?!?!?8!$-?#7_?" - You
"Your issue clearly didn't matter, so stfu and blame yourself for having fucking convictions."
Or, here's an idea: if the same people are bringing the same concern to you consistently over the course of two fucking years, maybe you, the candidate, need to rethink your policies.
Or, maybe they kept it up despite being ignored for two years because it was that fucking important to them as an issue.
What a fucking joke, you seriously read what you're writing here and go, "Oh yeah, I am so smart, I know everything."
It was the DNC. Bidens staff were fully aware of his cognitive decline and kept it a secret.
And the primary thing makes zero sense to me, the Dems haven't had an actual primary since Obama. 2016 they fucked Bernie over despite his popularity and forced Clinton on us, they basically forced through Biden by keep Warren in long enough to leech voters off a second Bernie run, and then we didn't even have one.
So the DNC tells the American people, "You don't get a say in who your candidate will be, and your candidate will also ignore you completely, but you have to vote for them." And you blame the voters for being apathetic? Yeah, makes sense, it's the fault of those not being represented for not being represented.
This is just elitist entitlement, "sEe WhAt i SaId AbovE aBoUt a ClEaR nO," fuck off. You don't get to dictate yes and no, the voters told the DNC how it would work: you change your policy on Palestine, or you don't get our votes.
The DNC, through their arrogance, hubris, and entitlement, decided they felt the voters were bluffing, and called them on it.
And the voters didn't bluff. Sure sounds to me like they all told the DNC "no," and maybe y'all need to fucking get over it and accept that No you got from your base.
And since we're gonna play this bullshit "Explain to me why women's and LGBT lives matter less than Palestinians," I want you to explain to me why you weren't standing with your Arab American brothers and sisters demanding their voices be heard? Where was your support of their concerns, I mean, it's only fair you supported them like you're demanding they support you, right?
And then I want you to explain to me why those Palestinian lives matter less than American LGBT and women's lives, because I sure would love to know why you feel entitled to their vote but they aren't entitled to their lives.
And hows their strategy of trying to win moderates over instead going? Lost four out of the last 7 elections? Real winning strategy there, maybe it'll work if we just double down and try to win even more moderate voters.
And the DNC doesn't push progressive candidates because they don't want progress, you fucking muppet. They're the other side of the conservative coin, they only care about the status quo.
They have to compromise, the DNC, the voters are done and aren't going to compromise anymore. And you can plug your ears and "but but but," all you fucking want: Harris didn't convince people she was worth voting for, full stop.
She fucking failed, she ran a loser campaign, and she fucking lost. And you're so "vote blue no matter who" you can't, or won't, understand that people aren't going to vote unless there's something worth voting for.
Every policy was "Well, we're just not gonna be as evil," basically. And people were expected to save democracy based on that? They had a fucking grand slam lined up (I know you like metaphors and such) ready to go, and Harris decided to bunt instead of swinging for the fences.
And she fucking lost, and we, the average American, are going to suffer because, for fucking once, the DNC couldn't plug their fucking noses like we have for over a decade, and run policies that might actually excite people to vote.
But no, that's completely unreasonable, you're right.
And how'd those demands go, solid win for the Democrats, right? Total landslide? 🙄
But keep demanding, people love having things demanded of them, especially when their concerns are immediately ignored after and nothing meaningful is offered in return beyond "bUt ThE oTheR gUy!!!!!!"
First: I'm a piece of shit when you think I haven't voted for Harris, and then when I tell you I do, you mock me as if that was the bare minimum and I'm an idiot for think it means anything. So which is it, do you want to celebrate those who did vote for Harris, or was that just the expectation that you felt entitled to?
Second: I've already answered this and you just keep plugging your ears and screaming it's the voters fault.
Harris didn't convince them she was worth voting for or that Trump was worth voting against. She ran an unpopular platform, treated her constituents like children, ignored their concerns, and aligned further right the longer the campaign went on.
They fucking ran a Republican-lite against a Republican, and you're all now screaming and trying to understand why a voter, especially a Democrat, would choose not to vote given those choices.
Apparently Americans are so unhappy with the status quo, 14 million Dems chose to stay home. Maybe the Dems need to figure out what they did that made them so unpopular, and stop blaming their voting base for their failures.
We were told to vote Biden to prevent a second Trump term, and that the Democrats would be movable and moldable so long as we got them into office. We got Biden in, and four years later we're being told the same thing, while the DNC has not moved on any of our policies at all.
So they're showing us they're unwilling to change, even if it means they'll fucking win, but you're demanding people vote for them anyway because we can make them more progressive after they're elected, but the- wait.
So the party won't move left unless we elect them, and after we elect them, we demand they move left (like the protest movement), and they refuse... So what incentive did we give them to move left? They were elected on their centrist status quo policies, and now they're giving us the middle finger. But I'm being told I have to vote for them again, and this time they'll move left, but...
All of their policies are the status quo again, and the last time we elected them and tried to move them left, they refused. I know! Let's elect them on their centrist platform again, but this time we'll make them pinky promise that they're gonna shift to the left for real this time.
You're fucking joking with this, right? "We have to elect moderates so we can mold them into progressives." They already got your vote, they could not care less what you want, they already won and are set for 2-6 years.
You're telling people they have a right to demand change of the DNC, but then criticize any attempt for people to shift the DNC left (protest vote, amirite) making it sound like it's "just not the right time," or "it's not convenient right now."
The same shit Republicans and conservative politicians say about striking workers fighting for their rights. All they have to bargain with is their labor, and you're the kind of person who would demand they get back to work because it's not convenient for them to be striking right now. So instead, just accept your status quo crumbs and try to change the system later, when it's more convenient, even though that's what you were in the middle of doing when your fellow countrymen started calling you a scab and traitor for standing up for what you believe in.
You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. You don't get to tell voters they have to accept the party as they are and that they're only allowed to protest when it's convenient. You don't get to say you're the good guys and still support evil policies your voter base is vocally against. You don't get to treat your constituents like children to be lectured, and then expect them to "grow up" and vote for policies they don't believe in or candidates they don't feel represented by.
I hit the character limit, but you're a fucking moron, and I'm done with this discussion.