Edited to replace original incorrect Herzog attribution with my own version that correctly attributes the quote
this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2024
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i dont think it was always fucked up, there was always some amount of fucked up, but there's vastly more amounts of fucked up now.
compared to what time? Tulsa massacre? jim crow? pre suffrage? slavery?
those are specific selections of fucked up ness in society. At some point that was considered to societal norm, people pushed outside of it, as the government and society intends to happen, shit gets goofy, eat sleep repeat and gay people are normal now.
we're also talking about a specific problem in politics, manifested in a very specific way today, that wouldn't have been possible merely 20 years ago, so i think it's fair to treat this like a sort of historically true fact.
unless you're trying to argue that humanity has been a constant state of bad throughout it's entire history, which i doubt, and also changes from person to person. It's not really relevant to go that far back i think.
they're not selections in the cherry picking sense; the country's history is a constant stream of oppression and political violence.
only one of them is a specific event, but i pointed it out it was particularly fucked up. but the rest aren't specific at all; they're entire periods of time where the "fucked up" was the norm, and the law.
i don't exactly understand what you think we're talking about. you say it's a "specific problem" but didn't specify it really. so i don't know what's supposedly impossible merely 20 years ago.
but merely 20 years ago gays couldn't marry. 20 some years before that the AIDS epidemic was ignored because the government thought it was a gay problem and didn't care.
there was always oppression and there still is. the orange cunt didn't invent anything. he just started saying the quiet part out loud.
this would be applicable to the entire history of the human race as well.
i'm talking about the fascist conservatism problem, and the specific ways in which it's being empowered. Something like this has literally never happened before, hitler being the closest thing, arguably. But that was before the modern era and now we have so many more avenues for social control and influence than with hitler.
i don't disagree, i just think in this specific aspect (politics) it's gotten substantially worse since the early oughts.
The specific mechanism of the problem is brand new and very hard to deal with, which compounds with the problem.
irrelevant, as we're talking about US history, not world history. you're the one saying we're in worse times than before and I'm asking when that was.
i disagree that fascism wasn't a serious problem before, i just think they're more comfortable with visibility today thanks to the orangutan leatherface. if you mean this to be the specific mechanism, okay, but i don't know if it's really worse than the insidious cryptofascism doing the same shit but with masks and dog whistles instead.
i get that, granted that was the argument i just made previously so this is a bit redundant here. Regardless, if we're just talking about the specific capacity of the human race to do bad things to other people, it's probably pretty consistent over time. Even through the global world history.
i think the modern incantation is worse simply because of how accessible it is, paired with how inconspicuous it can be. It can become a rather dangerous thing. And extremely coordinated. unlike the hitler arc, there is very little need for control of the media in this case, because they can literally just create their own narrative and it's global within about 20 minutes.
As far as stability, and the shaking of this country from a NATO sided democracy to a BRICS sided dictatorship? Yeah, I'd say it's right up there if it does happen.