this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
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[–] Classy 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

Oh look, another article pointing the finger at the meager consumption habits of citizens and completely ignoring the massive ocean of CO2 production by large companies.

Don't people get tired of seeing this same argument being made? The amount of carbon produced by barges carrying cargo over the Atlantic so far greatly exceeds the consumption of many millions of people every single day but I'm supposed to feel guilty for eating a piece of steak today instead of some semi-edible "impossible meat" bug protein?

ETA: Nice, my first blowup since leaving reddit. Very refreshing to see some people arguing passionately. I appreciate the vigor and the quality of argumentation, everybody. The quality of discourse here is so much better than on reddit.

I'm willing to admit the "semi edible impossible meat bug protein" gamut was a bit tongue in cheek, but I recognize how it can sound genuine. I do think Impossible Meat is disgusting, but that's neither here nor there.

I eat plenty of plant matter and I regularly forage in the local forests to learn about edible plants. But I'm not going to stop enjoying steak just because it might put a bit more CO2 (why do people keep writing it as C02 online?) into the atmosphere. If removing subsidies and putting more pressure on the meat industry to be less wasteful, less environmentally impactful and more ethical towards animals causes steak to rise to $40/lb as some here have stated I'll gladly pay.

FWIW, I get my steak from local farms that are free range and grass fed. Grass feeding is healthier for the cow than the typical grain, it produces less CO2 and the steak is better quality. Plus the cows are better taken care of. Again, thanks for the great messages (generally).

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Meat production causes 25% of all GHGs in our atmosphere. Personal consumption, on this matter, is 100% the cause. No one is forcing anyone to eat meat on the staggering level North Americans do. If we as North Americans didn't demand so much cheap plastic shit to buy as part of our lifestyle, there would be less of it made, less of it shipped, fewer cargo ships, less GHG. Your beef isn't with people telling you that we consume too much, your beef is with the insurmountable prospect of convincing billions of people to cool it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Aaaaand we're getting into the US defaultism again

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We're long past the point where focusing on just one or two sources of carbon is enough. Everything needs to be examined. We can choose a more sustainable diet AND curb mindless consumerism.

Also, I find the impossible/beyond burgers to be pretty good. I dunno what you're on about with "bug protein". At worst, they're made from yeast but plant material otherwise?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Bugs, crickets specifically iirc, have been touted as the miracle solution to getting protein in everyone's diet without the ethical or environmental ramifications of the current meat industry.

This has nothing at all to do with the impossible burger, or any burger that I'm aware of... maybe the previous guy just thinks it tastes like bugs? ...and fuck if they can make a bug patty taste as good as the impossible burger, then sign me up - the impossible is NOT bad. It's not great either, I'd rank it as slightly better than the average fast food burger patty, but that's good enough for me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

When the vegetable meat costs more than the animal meat, I can feel the "I'm being ripped off". Make fake meat cheaper than real meat and I'll eat it all day long.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Animal meat is subsidized heavily, plant meat is not. All we'd have to do is stop subsidizing animal agriculture and start subsidizing more plant alternatives.

[–] TopRamenBinLaden 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't know why this is downvoted. It seems perfectly reasonable to me as someone who has managed to cut most of the meat out of my diet. We definitely need affordable alternatives. Real meat is cheaper right now and that is the deciding factor for a lot of people.

Hopefully we will see this change soon.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I wouldn't say I'd feel ripped off, but for my broke ass, cost is probably the most heavily weighed feature of my food. Ethical and ecological concerns come in 2nd. To really push consumers toward meat alternatives, those alternatives need to, at the very least, cost the same as meats.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm vegan with pretty big muscles, the protein thing is a myth. Its really fucking easy to get enough or even extra

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I'm non-vegan and scrawny. I make poor life choices.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't think we can call the 18.5% of CO2 emissions that the meat industry creates "meager".

You're correct that the most effective way to tackle this is for governments to restrict the source, but you need to change people's habits too. Simply making meats more expensive isn't the entire problem.

This is an absolutely massive chunk of our emissions and it can not be left out of response to the crisis.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

No, but you should feel guilty for the atrocity that you inflict in intelligent creatures. I don't understand why that does not even enter the equation for people. Even if you must insist that an animal's life is not worth the same as a human beings, that doesn't mean it is worthless. That does not mean you are morally entitled to make decisions that require vast cruelty. Your preference for the same three fucking animals over the tens of thousands of culinary plants available to you isn't more important than not raping animals, not mutilating animals, not traumatizing animals, not forcing the dependence of animals, not torturing and murdering intelligent creatures.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You realize this is included in a large chunk of the CO2 that companies produce, right? Do you think they simply spew CO2 into the air for funsies? They produce shit that people are buying. That production spits out CO2. A good chunk of the CO2 produced is from the meat industry. Most of our meat is produced in large scale farms. To get that meat, you need feed. That takes land and harvesting. Those combines don't run on hopes and dreams. Those run on fossil fuels. Then the feed has to get to where the meat is. That happens on trucks and barges which run on fossil fuels. Then once the meat is actually slaughtered, it is shipped out on trucks and barges which, again, run on fossil fuels.

But don't feel too guilty when eating a steak. But also don't bitch when steak becomes $40/lb when subsidies for the cattle industry are removed and the government also properly taxes CO2 emissions. In fact, given your comment, you should be actively advocating that to your representatives.

And lastly, Impossible meat is fucking pea protein. Where the fuck are you getting that it is made from insects? You sound like one of those conspiracy freaks who is constantly worried about being forced to eat bugs. Are bugs to icky for you? Are you not man enough to eat them because they are scary?

[–] Classy 1 points 1 year ago

I replied via an edit to the parent comment. Thank you

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

What do you think big companies produce to make CO2? What do you think the big barges are transporting? At the end of the day, companies make what consumers want. And the meat industry is a horrible contributor to climate change, not to talk about land and water usage. So say all you want to make you feel better, which is fine, but the facts are that we as a society need to eat less meat to be more sustainable. Eating meat twice a day is not necessary, and nor is it even common, both on a global and historical scale. It is a luxury that we have to think hard about whether we should reduce the use of.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Wait until you see the giant super-yacht couriers that ship super-yachts for the supper rich.