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To play devil's advocate in defense of the Vance pick, I don't think Trump needs any assistance in courting boomers. He's managed to appeal to the generation's racist tendencies and "I got mine" attitudes to great success. Vance is to try and attract the young dudebro vote with a discount Andrew Tate. So far he seems like the incel messiah, so maybe it's even working, but obv in all normal circles being such a giant incel is weird af.
He’s not an incel. He “loves” his wife despite her race!
Her tradwife scores were so high that she beat all other ~~couches~~ competitors even after losing points for her inferior bloodline.
She cooks, cleans, bears children, and she's a high-powered San Francisco lawyer. What's more tradwifey than that?
Yeah, but did Trump really need any help locking up that vote? It's not like they were going to flock over to Democrats anytime soon. He's just doubling down on demographics that were already going for him anyways. He needed a stable Pence figure that could convince "on the fence" voters that there was still going to be an adult in the room, or just somebody who is anti-Israel or supports Palestine, that probably would've caused the most chaos among Democrats. They'd disagree on everything else, but hey, this person is against genocide in Israel, let's vote for them.
Anyone stable enough to be that figure saw what his cult wanted to do to Pence and wouldn't want to be his running mate.
I think the only anti-Israel person Trump would be able to get would be a literal Nazi, so I don't know if that would have changed anything.
I do think that there's a lot of apathy among the incel crowd though. Yeah they might support Trump as a strong man, but that doesn't mean they're willing to expend the energy to go outside and vote for him. I think the idea is that Vance is uh, energizing? that movement with all of his incredibly pro-natal talk. Vance feels pretty close to saying he wants women to just be breeding stock, and that's something incels would vote for.
I can't really play devil's advocate beyond that, it feels too yucky trying to rationalize it. For all we know he was just the name Trump thought of on the day.
Yeah, we can't discount the hetero-sectionals of this country. They'll take women as breeding stock, but until that day comes, they'll come on IKEA's in-stock.
Can you be an incel if you have children...?
I know the term is involuntary celibate, but the "movement" has kinda moved onto any men who believe that a woman is obligated to fuck them. That crowd has picked up on a heavy pro-natal message, and Vance's disparaging comments about women who don't have kids plays well there. He might have had sex, but he's trying to offer those losers a world where they're on top of the power structure.
He has things in common with incels, but that doesn't make him one.
philosophically he really really is, in the same way andrew tate (except for thinking he's hot, which incels don't do) is.
It would be so easy to compare him to incels without saying he is one.
he's an incel who got laid. philosophically, psychologically, socially, he still is. he just got his dick wet a few times. as much as they whine about it;the difference isn't big enough to waste valuable bandwidth defining.
There is a big difference in a virgin and someone who fathered children.
And no I'm not defending him. He's a total piece of shit. Just not involuntarily celibate even if he shares some views with those who are.
I mean just as one example of how they're different: level of sexual frustration.
just because he's fucked, doesn't mean he's gotten any better. doesn't mean he doesn't hate women any less. probably resents having to fuck one for his public image.
And I never implied any of that. Just that it's silly to call someone a thing with a literal meaning as though words don't matter. And yes he's not any better off, just different.
brevity, especially in explicitly political messages, matters. nuance WILL be lost, communication has two sides, and sometimes you cannot convey perfect truth, you need to lose a little fidelity. so "JD vance is an incel" is true enough for literal government work.
"JD Vance is a misogynist"
Brief and accurate. Less confusing. Didn't need to make up anything untrue or stretch any definitions to something they aren't.
incel is more poetic and gives more a sense of scale. 'misogynist' without elaboration feels smaller, less accurate.
its a compression issue, dear. sorry.
Ugh yeah I don't agree that defying definitions of words makes something "poetic". The fact is that this entire thread indicates the issue, and the upvotes I got indicate I'm not alone
I agree, to me "he's an incel" is weak because to the not-terminally-online vast majority of people it's easily proven false.
He's married and has kids, he's not any more "involuntarily celibate" than Trump is.
Thank you!
Incel isn't on your tax returns, Incel comes from the heart
He'll always be an incel in spirit
Can we prove it's his kids and not some cuck affair? Or so i heard.
You can be celibate after having children, so yes?
I think it's more than simply being involuntarily celibate. It's a whole thought process and belief system that places blame outside of yourself which creates a great animosity towards others.
I wouldn't call myself an incel, but I sure wouldn't be passing up sex if I were able to have it. I just don't blame or hate women for my problems. It's entirely my fault that I suck lol
Does celebate mean virgin? I thought it just meant not having sex.
You're right, but the vast majority of incels are both.