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A much better national motto (lemmy.world)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

One can be part of the system and recognize its faults.

Yeah, there were some people sort of bucking the system, and probably some closeted atheists, but criticizing the church for its corruption and failures is no different than us doing the same about our government today.

The next line after the quote is:

Upon this system depends The Royalty, Loyalty, and Allegiance of Europe. The Phyal of holy Oyl, with which the Kings of France and England are anointed, is one of the most Splendid and important Events in all the Legends.

So not necessarily an anti-deity statement, but more an acknowledgement that the Church is a system by which European rulers reinforce their power and wealth. The whole letter to Taylor from Adams really rants about the church’s power and attempts to control people’s lives.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don't disagree. Like I said, Adams was one of the more religious founders. He wasn't anywhere near as extremely anti-religion as people like Madison. But that's why I chose Adams.

If you want a good Madison quote:

What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.

And then, going back to Franklin, was him suggesting America should be building lighthouses, not churches.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Madison’s quote closely mirrors Adams’ for sure, noting the church just being another power structure used by the wealthy.

Franklin is one of the only founders I haven’t read much about, mostly because he seems too good to be true and there’s a lot of worship surrounding him. I feel like I could never get an honest look at him.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

There's plenty of bad things about Franklin. For one thing, he cheated on his wife all the time, often with women who were also married. And really didn't care who knew about it either.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

He was also rumored to have had many affairs. This shows that he not only invented the lightning rod, he probably also had one.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

So not necessarily an anti-deity statement, but more an acknowledgement that the Church is a system by which European rulers reinforce their power and wealth.

He was basically just channeling Seneca, who wrote this circa 65 CE (in his Letters from a Stoic, which are a great read)

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.