this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2024

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Dutch Olympian who raped a 12-year-old girl ‘is not a paedophile’, official says (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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A senior official with the Dutch Olympic committee has insisted that a convicted child rapist in its beach volleyball team is not a paedophile, in an email seen by the Guardian.

A concerned British man who has lived in the Netherlands for more than a decade, wrote to the Dutch Olympic committee and called the inclusion of Steven van de Velde in the team “a stain on the Dutch national side”. In a reply the Dutch Olympic committee spokesperson wrote: “Steven is NOT a peadophile [sic]; you really don’t think that de Dutch NOC would send someone to Paris who IS a real risk? No, he isn’t a risk.”

There has been mounting public anger at the presence of the beach volleyball player Van de Velde, who was convicted of raping a 12-year-old British girl in 2016. Earlier this week the International Olympic Committee faced calls for an investigation into how a convicted child rapist has been allowed to compete at Paris 2024. The IOC has said the selection of athletes for the Games was the responsibility of individual committees.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Why shouldn't it be 14. With 14 you're old enough to stand trial so you're old enough to decide who you want to fuck. There's staggered protections, though:

No exploitation of lack of sense of sexual self-determination of under 16yolds if the perpetrator is over 21. Over 16 that sense is presumed to be present, and under 21yolds aren't themselves considered mature enough to know what they're doing. Also from 18-21 either juvenile or adult criminal law may apply, depends on the defendant.
No sex against money or money-valued things (prostitution, sugar daddying) until 18, also no sex with persons in a position of authority, trust, care, etc (teacher, boss, whatnot). Also, no porn.
No recruitment into prostitution under 21years old (side note that's where a good chunk of the "human trafficking" statistic in Germany comes from. I'm not saying the law is bad all I'm saying we shouldn't confuse chaining women to radiators with driving through the Romanian countryside asking gals whether they want to make lots of money).

Technically 13/14 relationships are illegal, but courts apply Radbruch's formula to throw those cases out.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

You're old enough to stand trial

Generally, you don't get charged as an adult until you're 18 in America, so, not applicable.

I'm having difficulty parsing this first dotted point... Here, we don't generally prosecute minors who have relationships with each other, as while the law (and culture) does discourage that, it's primarily there to protect minors from sexual exploration by adults; hence our "Romeo and Juliet" laws, which protect relationships between minors and adults of similar age (such as for people born within 2 years of each other, but this varies by state).

The rest of this seems nonsensical to me, even America's laws around adulthood (16, 18, 21) are more clear-cut. I think there's a very fundamental difference in how law is conceptualized here, so I can't really understand how or why you would have a law saying 14 years is old enough for sex, but 18 for porn, but 21 for prostitution, as a premise.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

Romeo and Juliet laws do exist for many states, but not for all states, and the adoption of these laws is relatively recent. For instance Connecticut and Indiana only passed them in 2007.

The rest of this seems nonsensical to me, even America's laws around adulthood (16, 18, 21) are more clear-cut.

No, they're not, ohmygod :D

You have an actual federal government, but yet most of the States have different and sometimes conflicting laws.

The EU doesn't have a central government, as it's composed of sovereign nations (US states are not sovereign), and we still try to standardise as much legislation and regulation as possible.

so I can't really understand how or why you would have a law saying 14 years is old enough for sex, but 18 for porn, but 21 for prostitution, as a premise.

How is it legal for literal children to have firearms? How is a 16-year old old enough to drive a car, but not to have a beer or sex? How is an 18-year old old enough to determine whether they want to literally risk their lives in war, but aren't old enough to have a single beer?

It's like your dating system; it's all over the place.

Don't talk about nonsense, my American friend.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I think there's a difference in average maturity between US teenagers and European teenagers. I moved to the states when I was 20 and was shocked about how childish some of my new peers seemed. And I remember also being completely surprised I couldn't even lift my dad's case of beer into his trunk (he's a wheelchair user). The cashier flipped out when I picked it up.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Generally, you don’t get charged as an adult until you’re 18 in America, so, not applicable.

Being charged as a minor is still getting charged. The offences you stand trial for are the same, it's the sentencing that differs. So if it was illegal to have sex with a 14yold, and then two 14yolds were having sex, we'd have to put them both on trial for sexual abuse of the other because they're both criminally mature. Under 14yolds cannot be tried.

so I can’t really understand how or why you would have a law saying 14 years is old enough for sex, but 18 for porn, but 21 for prostitution, as a premise.

Because having sex and earning money with sex are two very different kinds of things. Kids are also old enough to buy shovels and dig holes doesn't mean we let them work in the mines. They can have and earn money (within reasonable parameters, think doing paper rounds or working a trade in the context of learning a trade) and spend it, they cannot take on debt or future obligations (like a mobile contract which you can't cancel on short notice and such).

Oh, and maybe this is worth pointing out in contrast to the US: We actually have sex ed and none of that abstinence only BS which obviously doesn't work, look at your teen pregnancy rates.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I wholeheartedly agree about abstinence-only education being an absolute failure of a policy, though I should also point out that it's a state policy, and states outside of the deep-south generally have at least basic sex-ed, and some states are fairly comprehensive.

Funny enough, when living in Tennessee, it was the class teaching the course, because the teacher was unable to tell us about condoms, how to use them, or where to discretely get them for free. She didn't stop up us, I think because she wanted the class to know, but wasn't allowed to teach us proper sex-ed by law.

I do also think there's a meaningful difference between juvenile criminal law and adult criminal law, in that we treat children's ability to make informed decisions differently than that of adults'.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

in that we treat children’s ability to make informed decisions differently than that of adults’.

14yolds can make informed decisions the question is whether they bother to do so, not whether they have the capacity. The main difference in Germany is a) specialised judges and b) sentences and sentencing institutions which capitalise on the fact that youth are still very malleable. While ordinary prison guards are social workers and adults can be absolutely bone-headed and set in their ways, correctional youth institutions have an army of pedagogues and psychologists running circles around the kids, forming them.