This issue really evokes my emotions, because of how much I love sports. I think sports are a vitally important part of the human experience. I guess dance is, too, but we're not talking about dance, in and of itself.
Dance isn't a sport. Period. Ever. Nobody can change my mind about this. Dance is potentially expressive, beautiful, socially useful, entertaining, etc. But it IS NOT A FUCKING SPORT.
Only sports should be in the goddamned Olympics, and shoving non-sports into the mix is shameful and disgusting. It's a wad of spit in the face of every great athlete who has ever taken the field. It's a disgrace to the Ancient Greek tradition that the Olympics are attempting to continue.
I don't give a fuck that there are already competitions for breakdancing. Or ballroom dancing. People can hold competitions for whatever they want. I actually think competitions shouldn't be held for entirely subjective and artistic activities, but people can do whatever the fuck they want.
But not in the fucking Olympics. This shit makes me sick.
And before you start pointing out the other subjective, judged events that are already in the Olympics: THEY SHOULD ALL BE REMOVED, TOO. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. NONE OF THEM BELONG.
No more gymnastics (rhythmic or otherwise). No more figure skating and ice dancing. No more skateboarding. No more surfing. No more synchronized swimming. No more freestyle skiing. No more diving. No more BMX. No more ANYTHING that requires judging.
You might browbeat me into admitting that some of those subjectively judged activities are sports, but you will never convince me that they belong in the Olympics.
Olympic sports should be restricted to those which are determined by means of a clock, a measuring tape, the accumulation of OBJECTIVELY scored points, or a physical beating.
Even some of those should be on the chopping block. Some of the points-scoring events are too subjective. If a sport relies too much on fallible human judging, it should be excluded.
The vast majority of the events should be arbitrated only by the cold, merciless, absolute judgment of the clock or the measuring tape. Therein lies the truest purity of sport.
Honestly, the best thing to do would be to reset everything to the REAL tradition of the Olympics. Almost nothing, other than running, jumping, and fighting. With an absolute minimum of rules to get in the way, and all the athletes competing in the nude. Just sandals on their feet. No space-age materials to help anyone. Nothing for anyone to hide. Just human muscle and determination, on display at the greatest possible level.
But it's all a forlorn dream. Instead, we have to have our stomachs turned, as a bunch of revolting little shitheads wobble and headspin.
The ancient Olympians are going to be spinning in their fucking graves.
EDIT: YES, I AM AWARE THAT THE FIRST COUPLE MODERN OLYMPICS FEATURED NON-SPORT ACTIVITIES, LIKE SCULPTURE AND PAINTING. THAT DOESN'T CHANGE MY VIEW. INCLUDING ART IN THE MODERN OLYMPICS WAS A RIDICULOUS MISTAKE. JUST BECAUSE IT WAS DONE BEFORE DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULD BE DONE NOW.
Yeah, watching you turn that molehill into a mountain has been a fun sideshow to your hilarious misunderstanding of the word 'sports'.
Whatever. I was insulted and I didn't have to like it.
Also, note that you're just arguing with yourself, when you talk about me misunderstanding the word "sports." This isn't about dictionary definitions. It never was. You're just pulling that out of completely thin air.
I am defining my own terms, relating to which sports are the most pure. I'm not subject to anybody else's definition. You can't "get me" by offering someone else's dictionary definition, or anyone else's opinion, or any precedent.
These are my opinions. If you find logical contradictions in them, I'd be happy to discuss them. I might even admit that I'm wrong about those parts of my arguments, and that I might have to adjust my own worldview, in light of my own unjustifiable fallacies.
But don't think that you're rhetorically "owning" me, because you think you've got a definition of "sports" that I am not adhering to, in this conversation. That's not how any of this works.
Have you considered borrowing from Esperanto since you're just making up definitions to suit your weird, totally not racist, rage against Olympic breakdancing?
I just love saying that- Olympic breakdancing... has a ring to it.
I'm not making up any words. As for "making up definitions," I will state again that I am indeed defining my own terms. That is allowed, in the realm of opinions.
I will also repeat that you are absolutely invited to poke holes in my rhetoric, if you observe logical contradictions or fallacies. But just saying "uhhh, you shouldn't be making up things" is not a valid criticism of my argument.
I'm not denying that I am constructing my own definition and interpretation of the purity of sport. In another portion of the conversation, I've already admitted that I was incorrect to so heavily rely upon arguments to tradition, to support my position.
I may have committed other fallacies and contradictions. Again: bring any of those up. Nothing wrong with that.
But if you think "nuh-uh, you shouldn't make things up" is some kind of valid debate point, well, it isn't. I'm not insisting that my opinions are facts. Nor am I knowingly denying any actual facts, which may be inconvenient to my argument.
As long as I refrain from those things, I am free to define any terms that I wish. That's not bad rhetoric.
Before you go back to your "but the definition of sports" line, remember that someone else's definition is not automatically a fact. It's only a definition within its own narrow context, which I am choosing to set aside.
Remember when you thought you were basing your definition on ancient olympic games but then you learned those had trumpet and herald contests and you got all sad about the 'forlorn dream' of your made up definition of sports? That was funny. Good times ;)
Yeah, that's what I was talking about, when I said this:
I changed my opinion from "t3h AnCI3nts nEvAR WanTED THIS" to "well, I guess the ancients were wrong, too."
That's what I'm talking about. That person pointed out a fallacy in my original statement. I updated my views, to admit that I was incorrect in my insistence that tradition was on my side.
Again: my own "made up" definitions are not on trial, just on the basis that I am making them up. I am free to define my own rhetorical terms. You keep on implying that I'm somehow in the wrong for doing that. I'm not. I never will be. You apparently have zero clue about how rhetoric works.
So you stopped relying on tradition and instead rely on made up definitions of words. Masterful rhetoric, bravo! ;)
Let's get this straight: according to you, admitting that I was engaging in a fallacy and changing my opinion to reflect the facts...that's where I'm going wrong? That's bad rhetoric, to you?
I guess you'd have preferred it, if I was just like "NUH-UH! THE ANCIENTS BELIEVED WHATEVER I WANT THEM TO HAVE BELIEVED! I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOUR HISTORY AND FACTS!"
That would have been better? That's what you think rhetoric is supposed to be? Just "LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING" whenever you hear anything you disagree with?
I mean, I guess so. That's basically what you've been doing.
"I'M NOT LISTENING TO THE DEFINITIONS OF WORDS I USE BECAUSE I'M MAKING THEM UP" is just as funny.
I will explain this to you one more time: RHETORIC IS NOT ABOUT DICTIONARY DEFINITIONS. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ME DEFINING MY OWN TERMS, AS LONG AS I AM LOGICALLY CONSISTENT IN THOSE DEFINITIONS.
This is not a controversial position. Of the two of us, I am not the one espousing a weird view. Do you think dictionary definitions are automatic-win cards, in organized debate contests? You think that's how everyone's rebuttal works? Each side just pulls out a dictionary and says "haha, I've gotcha now" and they win the debate?
The only way I could be at fault for going against the "definition" of a word is if I refuse to ADMIT that my own definition is potentially different from the dictionary's definition, or the traditional definition, or whatever else.
I have always maintained that my opinion is my own. I have never claimed that I am supported by the dictionary. For the last time: I DON'T NEED THE SUPPORT OF THE DICTIONARY, IN ORDER FOR MY OWN FUCKING OPINION TO BE RHETORICALLY VALID.
You'll have to provide your definitions for all the words in that comment since I can't assume any are dictionary definitions. For instance is your definition of rhetoric 'entertaining strangers with my bizarre angst'?
You really are just stuck on this "definition" thing, aren't you?
I really do want to know if you think people in organized debate competitions pull out dictionaries like they're "trap cards" from Yu-Gi-Oh.
I mean, you really are just embarrassing yourself, at this point.
I would pay ticketmaster prices to watch you present and defend your 'Sports are what I say they are\should be argument' at an organized debate competition.
Oh, I would lose. But not for the reasons you think I would. And that would be worth it.
Well no, you'd be laughed out of the room well before the competition began. But I'd still pay to see the attempt.
Can I ask something seriously, for a second? And, like, set aside the ad hominem attacks? Can we have a truce for a second?
Do you understand that my UNPOPULAR OPINION post wouldn't even be a position that anyone could debate, in a formal competitive rhetoric setting?
You'd have to do a LOT of tweaking and leave out MOST of my whole body of text. You'd have to pare it down to something very clinical and specific, like: "Resolved: The Olympic Games should reverse its decision to include Breakdancing as a medal event" or maybe "Resolved: Subjectively judged sports are fundamentally incompatible with true fairness in sports." Or MAYBE even "Resolved: in order to be a truly pure sport, an athletic competition must be judged based on physically quantifiable metrics."
Given those specific prompts, the framework of either side's argument would have to shed a GREAT DEAL of my entirely emotion-based commentary. It's not good enough to just feel something, in order to make a good rhetorical case.
However, I still do insist that an OPINION is major part of rhetoric. In fact, you couldn't have a debate, without a difference of opinion. Again, I still do believe a formal debate would have to pare down the number of nested opinions-within-opinions, and de-fallacy the whole thing. On either side. But truly, I implore you to admit that framing one's own definition for a concept does NOT automatically mean that you're wrong.
I didn't really start out to debate anyone, with this post. I was open to doing so, in an honest manner. But it's all still informal opinion.
I also want to apologize for the extremely uncivil tone that I fell into, with you. Maybe that provoked some of your intransigence. And obviously, you're entirely free to disagree with me as vehemently as you want. I did specifically post my opinion in the Unpopular Opinion community, because I knew it would be unpopular.
I'm just saying, this particular sub-thread of the conversation got way out of hand, and it's just bumming me out, at this point.
Yeah, that's why I've been making fun of you for bringing it up in the first place ;)
"Are you people allergic to fucking reading? READ MY FUCKING POST AGAIN. FUCKING READ IT."
Judging from this whole post seems like uncivil is your default setting and you're just chewing some humble pie right now because you got stomped so hard in the comments. Pretty sure you'll go right back to default after a bath and a nap. But for the record I enjoy online 'incivility' sometimes. Kind of fun to watch people come unglued over nothing.
If you're bummed out, get off the keyboard- you're in control of your situation here. I'm just some random asshole on the internet- might even be a bot, who knows... either way I can't keep making fun of your post unless you let me.
Okay. That'll teach me to try and make nice.
I should have known not to have any fucking faith in humanity. Just to be clear, I don't need to eat any humble pie, in regards to having my own fucking opinion. I tried to be nice. I figured it was a mistake. You confirmed it. Maybe YOU shouldn't go sniffing around the "Unpopular Opinion" community, thinking you're going to find things you agree with.
Or maybe YOU are just so much of a keyboard addict that your only means of entertaining yourself is making fun of people on Lemmy. Good goddamn luck with that, bud.
lol- one 'nice' comment after ranting psychotically at strangers for a few hours doesn't earn you much goodwill.
Another gold medal in melodrama for Chill Dude 69! Seriously, I wish my life was so easy that I could get this upset over trivial nonsense like you.