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Democrats need to pull themselves together and remember: Biden is still better than Trump
(www.usatoday.com)
this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024
590 points (89.1% liked)
politics
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No thanks.
I will never vote for Joe Biden again. Party for Socialism and Liberation at the national level this year.
0.0% odds.
They are 100% receiving my vote.
"Lesser evil? No, I choose irrelevance!"
Third party votes aren’t irrelevant. The two major parties look to third party turnout to judge how they’re being perceived and how to respond to it.
Plenty of third party candidates have been seated in the house and senate and in lower offices as well.
If I’m gonna take time out of my day to participate in the rigged American elections it’s gonna be to cast a vote for a party and candidate I actually want in power, not to throw my tiny vote in with one or the other liberal piece of trash.
For president? Total waste.
God damn, how egotistical do you have to be, to jack off about ignoring a fascist threat because it'd take precious time out of one Tuesday?
I don’t think you understood my reply. I’m planning on voting psl, I’m not ignoring a fascist threat.
Thus doing nothing against a fascist threat.
What do you think is going to happen if trump isnt declared the winner?
... the only other relevant candidate will be.
A deeply flawed option who is still fffucking obviously better than a bigoted narcissist openly promising a minor dictatorship. Just the tip.
I’m seriously asking what do you think will happen if trump loses (or is declared the loser)?
You’ve made it clear what you’re worried about if trump wins. What happens if trump loses?
I literally just told you. The only other relevant candidate wins.
Do you need a diagram or something?
I’m not being clear: what happened the last time trump lost?
The same thing. The only other candidate won. Same guy. Are you having a stroke?
If there was a “riot” in the capitol last time trump lost, what do you think will happen this time?
If you take stuff like project 2025 seriously and believe trump is a fascist threat then why do you think it matters how leftists vote?
You shouldn’t be out here scolding me for not paying homage to genocide Joe, you ought to be training.
Fascists not needing to attempt a coup, because they just won outright, would be better.
Somehow.
Apparently.
Fuck off.
Historically speaking fascists were granted power by centrists and liberals, not through winning elections.
You could examine different fascist movements and make the case that they have to take power outside of the democratic process because the fascist project is predicated on the weakness and degeneracy of the state and winning an election would reify the very orifice of power that they were granted it through!
Look at what happened when trump won. Everyone was calling him a fascist then, and he ran on opposing the administrative state but was immediately hamstrung by it once in power.
"Giving assholes power is better somehow because uhhhhh sometimes assholes take power anyway!"
Fuck off.
I’m not suggesting that. I’m not suggesting giving trump power because I’m voting against him and Biden in the general election.
One of those two people will have power and you won't endorse one over the other.
It's not a fucking mystery.
yeah, i'm not voting for a genocidaire just to keep trump from winning.
if the democrats wanted my support they could have run someone else.
"I won't lift a finger to stop fascism" is quite a fucking confession.
I didn’t say that, but I’m still never going to vote for Joe Biden again.
There’s a lot more than voting that will prevent fascism and as I said to you earlier, if you really think trump represents coming fascism your focus should be on preparing for violence instead of convincing people to vote for centrists and liberals, since historically speaking those centrists and liberals put fascists in power after they win the election.
Then I guess you're happy with subjecting non-Christian, Gay, Transgender, and Minority friends to Team Twitler.
No. You’re not gonna convince me I’m responsible for how other people treat minorities.
I don’t have to choose between the lesser of two evils.
You literally do.
You are responsible for who is in charge of how minorities get treated. What the fuck else is an election for?
No, I don’t. To demonstrate, I voted third party for president last election.
I literally am not responsible for the actions of this government. That status isn’t granted by my having abstained from voting for one of the two major parties, but by the governments actions not representing the will of the governed at all.
You contributed nothing last election.
Nobody is "responsible" for this government. You don't sign a blood oath to some candidate. That's childish horseshit. You are only offered a choice between two people, and you can choose less evil, or more evil. Previous elections led everyone to this point. If you want something else, those elections are what shape your meaningful choices, here in the future.
Nonparticipation, or effective nonparticipation by voting for Mickey Mouse, accomplishes literally nothing. Blather all you want about "the will of the governed," you are getting a government, and you know goddamn well who it's going to be, if you don't vote against the candidate who led a failed coup d'etat and openly proposes vengeful dictatorship.
Wait so am I responsible for the governments actions or am I not?
My third party vote didn’t accomplish nothing, it contributed to the relevance of a candidate and party I actually would like to see in power.
I don’t have to vote for a genocidaire because the other guys worse.
I don’t have to and I won’t.
Your vote helps decide which asshole takes power. One asshole is FAR WORSE. One asshole openly proposes dictatorship, having already attempted a coup d'etat. Your choice in light of that should not be complicated.
And yet. You struggle.
But hey, I'd like to be president, so I'm voting for myself. Same deal. Right? I have the same odds as whichever loser you're voting for. I'll be better than either of these assholes. And I'll definitely win, totally, super special promise. If you doubt me then how dare you vote for anyone else. Plainly we agree that neither leading candidate is flawless, and you aren't running, so vote for me or you're a fucking coward.
there's no struggle. its not a hard decision and my mind cannot be changed. i'm not posting to have someone convince me otherwise or to convince people to come around to my way of thinking.
if you think one or the other candidate is far worse and you ought to vote for the other one even though you don't actually want them in power that's okay for you. i'm not doing it.
I don't believe that "responsibility" is a useful tool for navigating moral choices. It doesn't matter who's "responsible" for the trolly. If there's someone on the tracks, and you consciously decided not to pull the lever, you chose for them to die.
If trans people are going to be killed, and you don't vote, you chose to prioritize your time over their safety.
Responsibility is a myth invented to assuage guilt for inaction.
I am absolutely going to vote, just not for Biden or trump.
I’m not going to weigh future trans people dying against current Palestinians dying.
Voting 3rd party isn't going to help Palestinians. If you want to vote for someone who isn't a Democrat, you should start building a grass-roots electoral movement (the way Bernie Sanders) did now so you can do that next time.
is the argument here that neither party will actually help the pals and voting third party can't help them either so i ought to vote only based on the other stuff?
so we're clear, i stopped voting for democrats years ago. it was in part to the constant "next time" and "most important election" rhetoric.
Oh, you're that weirdo who's all about how the Holdomor was fake.
Yeah, it makes sense that you would misrepresent my argument like that. I'm still not arguing with a genocide denier.
🤷♀️ the anticommunist historian who got to look at the soviet archives after the fall said it wasn't intentional and that's the whole idea behind "holodomor" instead of the "famine in 1930".
E: oh shit! youre the other person who was slagging on me for this! did you ever get the chance to look into Years of Hunger?