this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2024
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Plans to stop young people born since 2009 ever smoking are being debated and will be voted on later.

Rishi Sunak's bill aims to create the UK's first smoke-free generation in a major public health intervention.

The Tobacco and Vapes Bill would ensure anyone turning 15 from this year would be banned from buying cigarettes, and also aims to make vapes less appealing to children.

A number of Tory MPs have told the BBC they won't back the bill.

The BBC understands that Business and Trade Secretary Kemi Badenoch is considering voting against the plans.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Same. Normally I'd say "keep it legal" but smoking has significant second-hand effects, unlike something like motorcycle helmets for example (which I do not think should be legally mandated). I'm very torn on this one.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I find the second hand effects argument a difficult one to swallow when we deal with car pollution, industrial waste, microplastics, and so much more on a minute to minute basis. Anyone who lives in a city has essentially no reasonable expectation of overly clean air.

Public spaces are just that—public—and there should not be an expectation of being insulated from every harmful output by your fellow citizens, within reason. I’d take the errant cigarette waft over a bus station fart any day.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

when we deal with car pollution, industrial waste, microplastics, and so much more

I'd support banning or heavily penalizing those things too, FWIW.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

Don’t get me wrong, I want a clean world too, but what replaces the things we ban? Do we go back to horses (and all the animal cruelty that includes), or does someone foot the bill for everyone to get electric vehicles with charging stations that are 100% renewable?

Same with cigarettes—I’m ok with banning them in a world with free mental healthcare, humane working conditions, and stress relief spaces on every public block. Since that isn’t the world we live in though…I’m going to continue to defend people’s ability to reduce their stress with 5 minutes of nicotine, even if it is at the detriment of their own health. Some lives are so hard that extending them isn’t desirable—so the goal becomes to make the best of the time you have.

Seems silly to restrict or punish people for that reality, especially when nothing is being done to address the root causes of why people want to smoke in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

I find the second hand effects argument a difficult one to swallow when we deal with car pollution, industrial waste, microplastics, and so much more on a minute to minute basis.

'Everyone else is hurting you, so it should be okay for me to hurt you, too!'

It's 2024, and there are people who unironically think that two wrongs make a right.

The damage done by secondhand smoking is not an argument, it's a proven fact. It has been for decades.

overly clean air

You think that air can be too clean?

This reminds me of how smokers will try to exercise, start coughing because their lungs are clogged and trying to process the increase in oxygen, then using that to claim that exercise is bad for you.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

As a motorcycle rider: not wearing your helmet has significant second-hand effects on those who see your brains smeared across the highway.

You're also far more likely to take a rock to the face and become a danger to those around you before you crash without a helmet.

In other words: it's not just a personal choice and absolutely should be legally mandated

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I don’t see any benefits to smoking but we can say that about many things. I’d like to live in a smoke free world but once we go down the path, we run into the issue where to start banning everything on health concerns.

I like being able to go out to eat and it be smoke free but I wish the market had decided that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

we run into the issue where to start banning everything on health concerns.

Not really. Soda for example doesn't harm others, regardless of how much you drink. Smoking is different.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

If you’re smoking by yourself, you are not impacting anyone. In the United States, it’s banned indoors almost everywhere. The main impact is to the user.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Smokers are some of the nastiest people when it comes to littering.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Smokers litter!

Great now that we have established this fact of life, force tobacco corporations to make cigarette butts biodegrade at a faster rate.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

I just don’t get that.

When I was young I would just toss them out the window, but as I got older I realized how fucked up that was.

It doesn’t take long to just stick the butt out the window and let the cherry burn off, then you can trash it in the car without the smell

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Lots of smokers do so around their kids. How do you police that?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I dunno.

It's illegal to jack off in front of your kids.

Why don't we make it illegal to smoke in the same house as them, too?

Both seem equally-difficult to police.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Excellent analogy - you're right.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

It hurts if you throw the can hard enough. /s

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If you ride without a helmet, you're too dumb to get a licence

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

I agree that it's incredibly stupid, but if being stupid were illegal, we'd have an awful lot of people in prison.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I smoke a lot. It's basically the only vice I can do anymore, so I enjoy it.

I wouldn't want anyone else to take it up though.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Then get off your ass and mentor some youths.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Why would I do something you want to do? I never once said anything about mentoring anyone.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Even motorcycle helmets have a significant secondary psychological impact for bystanders... The difference between seeing someone slide and seeing a human crayon go splat is huge.