latenightnoir

You're not wrong, it really did feel like I was gaming the system with her. There are moments when you seem to break through and have a "normal" conversation (i.e. her not slamming the door in your face after your third sincere word), but this avoidant dance is making me really tired.

I seem to have reached the same point, we're Best Friends (down from Loved) and she's not messaging me anymore. Fun. I've been through this IRL more than I'd care to remember.

Honestly, the contrast stands elsewhere for me, in that with a real person, I at least know there's still a chance to talk things out if I play my cards right. In this case, though, I have no idea whether or not this is one of those "this will branch out into a related convo which will either solidify or completely cancel," which would motivate me to keep trying to navigate this situation and would pull me into the game even more, or if it's "you triggered the Ick flag and now you're out unless you mind wipe them," which just sounds sociopathic in and of itself, so no. Just no. As a person who's really into the not being able to retread choices aspect, means that something may have been blocked off for me for a really shitty and unjust reason (yes, I still believe it's an unjustified reaction based on the conversation, although a realistic one - realism does not imply healthiness).

And all I know now is that I triggered her NoDate flag, and I barely even know what that means other than she literally hates my guts for saying I'm never leaving. Not even kidding, her reaction to my asking to date her again would suggest I insulted half of her family tree...

Thanks for the support, kinda' regret getting into the dating sim part. They wrote the characters well enough for their presence or absence to matter, and it feels a lot like a real break-up would, although the impact is far smaller. It still fucking sucks to see an empty apartment and just go through with the grind after that.

Nah, the drug abuse is just another fuck-up in a long string of fuck-ups. The dude's always been a weirdo, he just didn't have the balls to go full Monty until the entire world started fluffing him up as the IRL Tony Stark. He feels invincible and it's pretty much our fault. I know I had some hope in what he was doing (even if just for a lack of better options), do I feel stupid now...

This, so far, is holding true, and I even started accounting for it after a point, steering away from the correlations I've noticed, but my sample size is so far from being in any way scientifically relevant, that I still have that lingering doubt that maybe I'm just seeing a mean, not the full spectrum.

Hell, good point with being specifically targetted as well, the worst one actually verbalised that she appreciated the fact that I naturally create a safe space for my loved ones so "she could behave like a 3-year-old." Maybe they see that I try to be as understanding and accepting as I possibly can and thus select me as a target, or something... I don't want to sound like I've slipped into persecution mania, I just know that some people are creepy that way, and it is what it is... Actually not all that different an impulse than the usual mate selection process, it's just that the subject matter is taboo and generally frowned upon, as it comes from a direction of profiting, not collaborating.

I think I finally understand Snipes's ad-lib from Blade, this really does feel like trying to ice skate uphill.

Honestly, one of my therapists told me she's surprised I manage to find people within "my type" at all, so I get it...

Thank you for your insights as well, and you're 100% correct! We should keep repeating these things, so that we may never forget the values we're trying to espouse! If nothing else, it genuinely feels good knowing that what I am doing, I'm doing ok-ish, even though in a completely unorthodox way.

Good. I hope he's angry about it. It would make me very happy.

I can tell you this much, I have never entered a relationship (i.e. anything more than "third date" territory) with anyone who showed signs of not seeking growth. Negative behaviours (with a certain degree of nuance in what I mean by that) are red flags to me, no exceptions. I try to understand the person, to sympathise and empathise as much as my principles allow, but if I see someone whistling at a waiter, for instance, I'm done and heading home. If said negative behaviours are solely oriented toward themselves and they are obviously taking care not to do splash damage, then that's a different thing. But it's acceptable to me precisely because there is intentionality behind that, that, while the cause isn't fixed, that monster is being monitored and kept secure until a better and more permanent solution is found.

As an example, the one who punched me (and, to be clear, I'm not talking frustration punch in the arm, I'm talking furiously and repeatedly punching me in the face - intentionality, but in a different direction, I guess...). She seemed to be healthy. She even seemed to have her shit more tightly packed than I did, to be honest. Going to therapy for several years, saying the right words, displayed humility, the whole nine yards. This lasted for several months, after which her words and her actions started slowly slipping out of phase, until they were essentially contradicting eachother. I stayed a bit too long in this one because after every blowout there would come the period of discussion, where we would again seem to reach consensus. Then it'd be ok for a few weeks/months, then, again, gradual decline toward full blowout. I got tired of that rollercoaster eventually...

A different relationship ended due to my partner's lingering suspicions from a past relationship, where she became convinced that my asking things about how her day was going was me trying to be controlling. I again ended this one when it became clear that her convictions had priority over anything I could have said or done. And, again, this showed up much later in the unfolding of things, as she non-euphemistically got triggered and her trauma response solidified.

See, that's the weird thing, I know exactly what the pattern is pointing toward, and it's myself. I am looking for someone similar to me. I actually see and steer clear of familiar behaviours which I've received from other people who've had a role to play in my traumas because I know those are a surefire way toward being abused. I don't espouse them, either, for the same reasons - I pride myself with having learnt from others' mistakes.

This is why I'm so damned confused about the feasibility of this tightrope I'm trying to walk. Because I know it's possible to be both healthy, functional and live with your demons openly, I'm living proof of that to myself. But the string of disappointments seems to indicate that it's not actually all that common, which sucks.

As for the devil I know, I know I try to not be one, honestly, which is part of the reason why I'm looking for something similar. I somehow hope that similarity is also an indicator of values and intentionality, and while it has somewhat been a useful benchmark, it seems to be missing a level of nuance which leads to things slipping past my net. And I have no idea how to adjust.

And related to the safe unknowns, it's never been fear, because I both give everyone the benefit of the doubt by default and also understand every individual's innate potential for destruction. I have seen the best and the worst in humans, they don't scare me anymore. They just annoy and, in extreme cases, anger me. The trouble with the safe choices is their innocence, I meant what I said. Interacting with a person who sincerely doesn't know the truth behind things is a very specific kind of exhausting and yet another type of walking on eggshells from my perspective. And it's heartbreaking, because I know from the start that some things they will never understand about me until they themselves go through them. And I also meant what I said about not wanting to be anyone's harsh awakening, because I understand that who I am intrinsically poses that risk to someone who still has that kind of innocence. It's a very big turn-off, and it's an especially sucky one, because it really isn't the other person's fault.

And, yeah, I echo everything you said about the power plays one sees in many relationships. And I'm honestly so fucking tired of that shit, those annoying little mind games and flash tests... I'm just too old for that shit, y'know? I'm looking for someone down-to-earth, who's dropped their pretences and who's in it for equal take, be it in getting drunk at the banquet, or dealing with the morning after, so to speak. The main things I seek are companionship, collaboration and mutual understanding, someone with whom to plow through life, as I said. I'm solitary and monogamous, I have very few people close to me at any given time because that's how I'd rather have it. A partner is more than just "a girlfriend" to me, I don't even know how to properly express the complexity behind it.

Thank you so much for your kind words! I wished so much for this to not be yet another one of those situations in which your gut was right from the start, kinda' hoped for an easy fix, that couple of words which'd make things click in my head. A-wadin' i shall continue to go, I guess...

Thank you for your answer and sincerity, I'm sorry you've been in these parts before...

I have to say, though, I think I'm past my depression, which my therapists agree. And, yes, I am unhappy, but I'm not closed off to the possibility of happiness, I do wholeheartedly believe it is possible, and on the other hand have grown enough to have realised that I don't even need happiness, I need drive. I am messed up because I cannot unsee the things I've seen. I am messed up because I see the human being as what it is, a creature with immense potential for causing varying types and degrees of harm to others, and we are living in a time in which most people alive seem to be taking full advantage of that potential. Every single point of sadness is an easily identifiable and thoroughly definable outside point over which I don't have much and/or immediate control. But I love life! I love living, I love doing things, creating, learning, and as a thespian at heart (groan all you want), there's artistic catharsis to be had in defiantly persisting while wading through this crap, and so I have all the force I need to see myself through.

What I meant through "being miserable together" wasn't "being depressed together," I meant being broken together, basking in the true ugliness of things together, facing our individual sadness together. I will never be a happy-go-lucky person and am more than fine with that, because I understand why I'm not and wouldn't have it any other way. I'd rather drown in the ugly truth than live a life of ignorant leisure, I'd rather be broken by knowing the world for what it is and staring it in the eyes incessantly.

To add, I'm not even looking for happiness in my relationships. I don't need my partner to make me happy or complete me, because I can make myself happy (or content, rather), and I am more complete in myself than I've ever been. I'm deeply satisfied with who I've managed to become in spite of things. I need a real human being with a bit more dirt under their fingernails than usual, someone unhindered by the pretence of surface acceptability and likewise unwavering in their relationship with the truth.

This is why I obsessed over nuance in my original post and why I apologise for failing to adequately provide it, I think most people misunderstand where I'm at and mistake it for a pathological thing, when it's actually just me being true to myself, which implies being open enough to the world around me, that I cannot but be affected by it when it clashes with my empathy and values. And there's a fuckload of clashing nowadays, which is why I'm in turmoil. Beyond that, there's nothing other than my profound passion for the grim and macabre, for the theatricality of ugliness. I don't want to sound pretentious, I'm just aware of the fact that this detail alone makes me an outsider. (Edit:) to be clear, this does not mean I seek drama or suffering in relationships, aesthetics and getting punched in the face during an argument because you've caught her in a lie are two very different things. The grotesque I like doesn't hurt anyone more than potentially offending their sensibilities.

I do want to confirm that I am and will continue to seek healthy growth, and am genuinely grateful that I've managed to actually understand what that growth means in my case.

My favourite example of such.

Jesus Christ, it didn't even take my brain a millisecond to start fantasising...

"You're also a contortionist in this scenario."