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The first desktop version, Mac OS X 10.0, was released on March 24, 2001. Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard and all releases from OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion to macOS 14 Sonoma are UNIX 03 certified
I don't like MacOS, but it's actually able to be called UNIX.
I'm surprised you don't lose Unix certification with crap like case insensitive filesystem defaults.
I don't want to be like Stack Overflow, but tbh you have some design problems if you rely on case sensitive filesystems.
Being able to be called Unix just means paying for certification. No more, no less.
I mean Mac OS has its place. There's a reason so many music producers and coders choose that OS. It's a rock solid stable approach for those use cases.
That being said, personally I would always prefer Linux but that's mostly because I don't do those things.
I don't even particularly hate windows, I just like PopOS better
I'm a dev and I mainly see issues with removed... Every update breaks some tools the cli tools are ancient, homebrew is slow as hell and breaks quite often, docker is really slow and costs money if you don't know how to avoid that, it's very expensive to get to a certain amount of RAM that costs nothing on PC and so on.
Homebrew recently broke for me permanently on a macbook because it was made in 2013 and is now blocked from upgrading, so xcode no longer can be upgraded...Which means lots of other shit also no longer works. Including homebrew. Soon have to put a distro on it, I guess.
I was starting to get issues with a macbook from 2012 (specifically homebrew / xcode) when I upgraded. I'm going to be honest: Having a powerhouse of a machine for 10 years before it becomes obsolete, I'm not going to complain for one second. Got myself a new macbook, and it runs like the wind. Works seamlessly with all the tools I need in an environment where we rely on gfortran / gcc, and a lot of my coworkers use Linux.
To be fair: Part of the reason I waited for so long before upgrading was that I was waiting for them to ditch the butterfly keyboard / touchbar, and get some ports back into the machine. Once they did that I was sold. My only issue with macbooks would be the absurd price for an adequate amount of RAM, but as far as having a good computer, once it's paid for it's fantastic.
Genuine question, how is MacOS better for coders? I think those that do usually choose it because they're used to it or their company offered either a bulky ThinkPad or a Mac and they wanted something thin and light.
Everytime I see tutorials for setting up or building something there will be a simple Linux install command, downloading a zip for windows (or if you're lucky you can find it on Choco), and then there will be the multiparagraph homebrew setup.
macOS offers a lot of stability, it's reliable, predictable, boring even. It works out of the box and stays that way, it survives upgrades, and rarely crashes.
The release cycle is steady, and changes are generally gradual and incremental. Mac users don't usually have to worry about a new release breaking their system or their workflow because a developer wants to reinvent the wheel or a UI designer wants to make their mark. The only big shifts have been processor transitions.
The Mac ecosystem also allows users to have a foot in both the proprietary and open source ecosystems on a single platform. Being able to run, say, web development environments and Adobe CS for example, can be a lot easier than farting around with Wine or WSL.
Granted, there's plenty of downsides to the Mac as well, but the platform definitely has merits.
Macs are pretty solid for coding. You don't need to tinker with them, most of the time stuff just works. On the other hand, I spent lots of time to make sure stuff just works well on my Dell or ThinkPad with Ubuntu or pop.
For software, I've found that some software doesn't give you much help if you get into problems on Linux.
And there is always something with Linux that doesn't work for me. Like my Dell laptop with pop!os doesn't charge over usb-C from Dell monitor (it worked on windows). Touchscreen doesn't always work after waking up. I had ThinkPad with awful fan control on linux and hibernation issues. I had issues with scaling with external screens.
I don't really think it's better. They're fine for coding.
They're basically the corporate default because they're easier for companies to buy and remotely administer, they've got good VPN software, good resale value, etc.
I code daily on mine, by choice. I also have no issue coding on Linux and will happily spend all day in a CLI. Homebrew is just as easy as using apt or what have you, at least in my personal experience.
It isn't always perfect.There was a bit of head scratching over shared libraries one time, until I figured out what stupidity I had to do to make Apple happy, but that is the only notable thing I can remember.
However, coding on Windows can be super painful depending on the language, especially with all of the backwards paths. The only coding work I enjoy doing on Windows is C#. Worst case WSL2 is around when I need some sanity.
No matter what, I have any of them available to me and the battery life on a MacBook Air is amazing. The corporate laptop is actually a decent machine and the size and weight is pretty good, especially considering the monstrous bricks the previous models were. Mobile workstation woes I guess. The most amusing part is AutoCAD 2024 running smoothly on the Mac. I never knew it could be that snappy.
Not sure why the Linux community is convinced macOS is better than Windows. macOS has the same big issues Windows has (Spyware, ads, and the inability to delete the built in browser) while having worse issues like not supporting openGL/Vulkan, not allowing the user to install old apps, the inability to install hardware, and the small issue of only a select few Linux distros that work with it. Windows isn't good, but it's still better than macOS in most regards.
User experience is better on macOS vs Windows/gnu+linux newbie distros. Imho.
I bought a Mac laptop once and lasted about 3 months before running back to Linux. Mac OS may be great for some people, but it's definitely not for everyone. It was also hell to pull my photos out of their damn software.
The machine was ok though.
MacOS is UNIX™
So is there a linux circlejerk? Cause you’re just ridiculous with your tribalist shit…
Yeah, macos is pretty based. I don't own a Mac product but I have and they were great.
Yeah its called lemmy.
I know a lot of people like macOS, and I'm sure they get a lot done with it. For me however, it's easily my least favorite popular OS. That's even considering the terminal running zsh by default, which is miles ahead of Windows.
A quirk that recently bit us at work is that Safari has a maximum allowed version based off your OS version. Now if it was just me as a user, I'd download a 3rd party browser. However, as a developer, I have to build solutions that work for every "reasonable" browser. This means I can't use features that every modern browser has, including Safari, because Safari from 4 years ago didn't have it.
I vividly remember when a friend of mine who runs a small graphic design studio was sent an archive file macOS couldn't open natively and asked me for help. Never having used a Mac and without any clue as to which tools the stupid app shop (which was rather new at the time) held, I couldn't for the life.of me get the blasted thing to obey me, until I found a terminal. I then installed build utils and compiled the frickin' unpacker I needed myself since it only had Linux binaries. Worked like a charm.
I think it's gotten better, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the countless times MacOS was too stupid to recognize a file type, and absolutely rejected all attempts to tell it what it was. I almost always found a way around it, but it would sometimes take dozens of minutes of fighting with the OS; these times almost made me long for Windows.
Apple's position that users are fucking idiots may be usually justified, but they consistently violate the "... and make the uncommon possible" rule. The philosophy that the OS is always right is frustrating.
Our phones aren't bad at reception, you are holding them wrong
As a macOS user I don't agree.
Me: "ls ~/Downloads", mac-gui: Would you like to give "Terminal" access to the "Downloads" folder?
Ok, it's true that you have to spend 15 mins after setting up to "install developer tools", and remove some safety rails. However, the mac doesn't prevent you from doing that, and doesn't really even try to make it hard (if you've ever touched a terminal before). Once it's set up, you're good to go..
I really like it, and I miss it on Linux. On Linux, I have to trust that each and every sh/bash script, package install script, or some stuff you download from internet are actually safe and don't access your private stuff. On mac I get the prompt when some software needs to access a specific folder.
As a carrot I half-agree.
What is wrong with the Mac? Is the only device that that makes me feel attached to Linux somehow.
There's nothing wrong with it if you like it. At work, our servers are windows and I hate them. IN my home lab, I have a couple of guinea pig windows servers to play with and my actual home stack run on various flavors of linux - mainly ubuntu and centos. My gaming rig is windows because i just want to play the game, not play learn how to make the game run. And my workstation that I sit in front of and work at every day is a Mac because at work my job is to fix other people's shit, and I don't want to have to fix my own workstation in the middle of a client's fire like my old windows workstation did to me many a time. I also don't want to have to learn weird ways to do basic tasks when I'm on the clock like I do with my linux laptop. Every OS has a way that is shines, and if your use case aligns don't let anybody make you feel bad about it.
I mean macos is Unix certified. But *nix systems are better.
I don't mind MacOS
Eh, as long as you don't update it its extremely stable. And it's a UNIX system so you can still do shenanigans if you're still inclined.
That is an interesting sentence: as long as you don’t update it’s extremely stable
But this is more about macOS having no package manager (officially), telemetry and such
I know, and trust me, I hate Apple for essentially breaking my computer after an update. But I had my MacBook for 6 years now, use it daily, and have no hiccups other wise.
Yeah, back when I was playing around with terminal not having a package manager was a huge pain in the ass.
snow leopard was damn near perfect, then they fucked it up