this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2023
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The European Union wants elderly people (70+) to undergo medical tests from now on to prove that they are still capable of driving a car every five years. However, the proposal has been met with a lot of criticism.

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[–] [email protected] 113 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Very good. As a german, I'd welcome this.

However, expect heavy pushback from the German automotive industry. They are for Germany what the NRA and weapons manufacturer lobby is to the US.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If a german pensioneer can't drive a german car with more than 250 kph on the german Autobahn from north to south, west to east: how can we have EINIGKEIT UND RECHT UND FREIHEIT?

/s

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Does the German automotive industry also exercise immense power and influence in both politics and society?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

That's a solid "Yes, definitely!"

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Germany is unbelievably car-centric for a developed country. It's also nicely planned, so most of the time you can survive pretty well without a car, but car is still the king here

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[–] [email protected] 88 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

This would be great. We should also require all drivers to pass small exams every ~10 years in order to assert that they are up to date with new laws and new types of infrastructure.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

Or better yet, deal with aquired bad habits and hopefully break people out of them.

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Everyone mentions cognitive abilities, which is also important, but really physical abilities should be tested as well.

Here in america, My 89 y.o. grandmother (at the time) used canes to get around. Got her license renewed just by a written test, no one batted an eye. The fact that she "walked" in was enough and no one saw that she would physically have to pull her leg up to push the brake pedal.

She got into quite a few fender benders after that, and 1 pretty bad accident that totalled her car. That bad accident was responsible for a huge decline in health. She cant drive any longer, but between the insurance and the burden on family to support her ailing health, it all could have been avoided if they required a doctor's signature for renewal.

I do realize that something like this takes away from feeling independent and maintaining autonomy, and i feel for that. It sucks that part of growing old is...well, growing old, but should those emotions outweigh personal and public safety?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

There was a man who lived on my street who drove way way way into old age. His car was literally covered from front to back in dents. You’d see him walking to his car so slowly it was painful. He’d struggle to get the door open, hop in, and take off. It seemed like he had a new dent every time he came home.

I knew another man though, WWII vet, 98 years old. His wife was 93. He’d come to my store and buy cigars for himself and cigarettes for the wife. He had no issues getting around at all. I was legit shocked when I found out how old he was. His health deteriorated so quickly seemingly out of nowhere and he was still trying to drive, but fortunately his daughter stepped in and put an end to it.

Now his daughter has dementia. One day she stopped in to buy cigarettes for her mom and she asked me if I knew her son. It kind of took me by surprise. I’ve known the whole family for 20 years at this point.

Her son had a serious car accident in the mid 2000s and he’s been in a wheelchair since. He lost both of his legs, half of one of his hands, fingers burned off at the ends on the other. He barely survived.

She was telling me about the accident like it had just recently happened. She was crying, said almost word for word what she’d said to me all those years ago while he was in the hospital. Such a surreal experience.

Next time I seen her she asked me again, “Do you know my son?”

Then she tried to pay for her fuel 3 times back to back.

She’s still driving. Everyone knows that she’s experiencing these problems including the local police, but she’s still out there driving around.

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[–] [email protected] 65 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Good Idea. It's widely accepted that cognitive capabilities can decline rapidly with old age. It simply makes no sense that a person that needs 8 tries and 10 minutes to change the station on their TV is still allowed to operate a two ton death machine without any checks in place.

The important part here is to make it so that it ONLY "catches" declined driving capabilities and is not also biased in terms of social and financial status or maybe if you're an immigrant or something.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Reaction speed in particular.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Medical tests?? bleh. Driving is driving, health is health. All drivers should have a to retake basic driving tests at an increasing rate until by the age of 70 where it maxes out at once per 5 years or something.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I agree, especially since medical tests won’t show the driver slowing down as they enter a roundabout or taking a full minute to shift lanes or positioning themselves so they can’t even look in the rearview mirror.

A ton of driving is about behaviors and tendencies. A driver that has no awareness of other drivers is a dangerous driver, regardless of how good their heart, eyes, or reaction time. Dementia obviously affects this, but you can get a clean bill of health from your doctor and then drive off home in the left lane at 5 below the speed limit because other people are just going too damn fast.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Absolutely, people forget its a privilege to drive heavy killing machines around and it should come with more tests for all drivers and harsher penalties for law breaking to keep the roads more safe.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago

If they would do that we would finally get a strong lobby for decent public transport!

[–] Mininux 44 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Honestly seeing how people drive ~10 years after getting their licence I think we need a kind of test every 10 years, not necessarily because of declining cognitive capacity but just generally forgetting about safety

although it would be pretty expensive to check absolutely everyone

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I wish we could test for cognitive ability for voting access over 70.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (9 children)

The german satire party DIE PARTEI wanted to implement a highest voting age. If you can't vote the first 18 years of your life, you shouldn't be able to vote the final 18 years.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There's a pretty serious concern here about the mobility and independence of the elderly... but that can't be put over and above public safety. I see either very anxious and hesitant, or completely off with the fairies and uncaring elderly drivers on a frequent basis.

They wouldn't get anywhere near a licence if they had to demonstrate their competence even once more, let alone semi-regularly.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Mobility for the eldery IS important but IMHO there should be affordable, easy accessible options without the use of a personal vehicle. Otherwise it get's harder and harder for the eldery to participate in social activities which are beneficiary to mental health and prevent early symptoms of Alzheimers disease.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This is quite a brilliant idea. Although we could argue that everyone of all ages should be somewhat tested every x years. The amount of people that are over confident and forget things on the road is quite scary.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Should be every two years really. Then how about every 5 years for everybody else.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I support this. Cognitive function obviously declines as you get older. And elderly people have been lucky enough to live their lives. What if an 80 year old goes out driving, is quite infirm or easily distracted, and kills a 20 year old driver? That 20 year old has the chance to live stolen from them, while the 80 year old already got to live their life.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

In Germany he'll get a few month license suspension and pay a fine of a couple hundred to a thousand euros.

Every other month there is news of an elderly drover killing someone under gross violation of traffic laws, e.g. driving on the wrong side of the road, accessing one way lanes from the other side, speeding, crossing red lights etc. Then the court rules that granny is seriously sorry, but sze explained that she needs the car, so out and about again. Doesnt matter if she already killed people in a traggic accident that was 100% her fault.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yes, please make it happen! There was a subreddit called /r/RentnerFahrenInDinge (pensioners driving into things) that was full of new articles of elderly people being completely clueless in traffic.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (9 children)

This sounds totally reasonable, maybe the time frame is even a little too long for people over 80. Like it or not, your body, sight, reflexes etc do change.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Good, I completely agree with this. Maybe once they hit 80, every year.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Why 80 years old even needs to drive? Their reflexes are slow, their vision is bad, their hearing is catastrophic. Why just dont let someone drive them/use taxi/public transport?

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

As someone who lives in a town with a high proportion of elderly people, I am not against this idea. We do need to make sure that people found no longer capable of driving safely are able to get the support they need to keep living their best life.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Good.

Normalize checking peoples cognitive abilities.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Frankly this is one of those things I kinda hope self-driving cars will help fix, given that we’ll just never have decent public transport.

Over 65? Here’s a test every year. Can’t drive to a high standard? Licence invalidated, go get yourself a car that drives itself, which at this point should be going for a comparable price.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Yeah this is really good. My wives grandfather is still allowed to drive, but I wouldnt go anywhere near him when hes driving.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Good. Old people will tolerate a terrifying number of medical problems before going to a doctor

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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