But new users don't even know what snaps are. They don't care. We care because we are crazy bastards
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I use Arch btw
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What's snaps?
I am so sorry this got so long. I'm absolutely horrible at brevity.
Applications use things called libraries to provide particular functions rather than implement those functions themselves. So like "handle HTTP request" as an example, you can just use a HTTP library to handle it for you so you can focus on developing your application.
As time progresses, libraries change and release new versions. Most of the time one version is compatible with the other. Sometimes, especially when there is a major version change, the two version are incompatible. If an application relied on that library and a major incompatible change was made, the application also needs to be changed for the new version of the library.
A Linux distro usually selects the version of each library that they are going to ship with their release and maintain it via updates. However, your distro provider and some neat program you might use are usually two different people. So the neat program you use might have change their application to be compatible with a library that might not make it into your distro until next release.
At that point you have one of two options. Wait until your distro provides the updated library or the go it alone route of you updating your own library (which libraries can depend on other libraries, which means you could be opening a whole Pandora's box here). The go it alone route also means that you have to turn off your distro's updates because they'll just overwrite everything you've done library wise.
This is where snaps, flatpaks, and appimages come into play. In a very basic sense, they provide a means for a program to include all the libraries it'll need to run, without those libraries conflicting with your current setup from the distro. You might hear them as "containerized programs", however, they're not exactly the Docker style "container", but from an isolating perspective, that's mostly correct. So your neat application that relies on the newest libraries, they can be put into a snap, flatpak, or appimage and you can run that program with those new libraries no need for your distro to provide them or for you to go it alone.
I won't bore you on the technical difference between the formats, but just mostly focus on what I usually hear is the objectionable issue with snaps. Snaps is a format that is developed by Canonical. All of these formats have a means of distribution, that is how do you get the program to install and how it is updated. Because you know, getting regular updates of your program is still really important. With snaps, Canonical uses a cryptographic signature to indicate that the distribution of the program has come from their "Snaps Store". And that's the main issue folks have taken with snaps.
So unlike the other kinds of formats, snaps are only really useful when they are acquired from the Canonical Snaps Store. You can bypass the checking of the cryptographic signature via the command line, but Ubuntu will not automatically check for updates on software installed via that method, you must check for updates manually. In contrast, anyone can build and maintain their own flatpak "store" or central repository. Only Canonical can distribute snaps and provide all of the nice features of distribution like automatic updates.
So that's the main gripe, there's technical issues as well between the formats which I won't get into. But the main high level argument is the conflicting ideas of "open and free to all" that is usually associated with the Linux group (and FOSS [Free and open-source software] in general) and the "only Canonical can distribute" that comes with snaps. So as @sederx indicated, if that's not an argument that resonates with you, the debate is pretty moot.
There's some user level difference like some snaps can run a bit slower than a native program, but Canonical has updated things with snaps to address some of that. Flatpak sandboxing can make it difficult to access files on your system, but flatpak permissions can be edited with things like Flatseal. Etc. It's what I would file into the "papercut" box of problems. But for some, those papercuts matter and ultimately turn people off from the whole Linux thing. So there's arguments that come from that as well, but that's so universal "just different in how the papercut happens" that I just file that as a debate between container and native applications, rather a debate about formats.
Sounds like docker with a load of extra steps.
I think of snap and flatpack as docker containers but for GUI apps.
There's more differences of course, but I take that as the gist.
I understand less now.
Take that person's post, comparing it to cooking.
Sometimes you use a ~~Library~~ pre-made sauce or spice blend as part of a recipe, so you don't need to waste time remaking something that is commonly used.
Every so often, a company will tweak the recipe for the things you are using, but it still basically tastes the same. Sometimes they just decide that now it's salty instead of sweet, so it would complete ruin the dish you would like to make.
The recipe you are using assumes you live in Australia where the new version of the sauce/spice blend is more common, but where you live still only sells the old version.
So now you can either wait for the store to sell the new sauce/spice blend, import it from Australia, or try to make it yourself. But you might have another recipe that still needs/uses the old sauce/spice blend. Needing to have both can lead to issues where you use the wrong one, ruining the food you are trying to make.
This is where ~~snaps, flatpaks, and appimages~~ those dish-in-a-box kits come into play. They'll have the correct version of the spices/sauces you want, so it doesn't really matter which version you have in your kitchen.
Snaps branded dish-in-a-box kits are developed by Canonical, and they can be kinda weird. You need to check ~~for updates~~ if you need to re-buy them manually, and you can only get them from the "Snaps Store". Other dish-in-a-box kits allow you to get them from whichever store you want, and will automatically re-order when needed.
And that’s the main issue folks have taken with snaps. If you ~~have 50+ programs~~ are making a meal with 50+ dishes, and you need to constantly check if you need to rebuy them one by one, it gets old quickly.
Also, Snaps takes up a lot of room, and generally just kinda suck compared to installing things normally or through flatpack.
Here friend, I also didn't know
Snap is a software packaging and deployment system developed by Canonical for operating systems that use the Linux kernel and the systemd init system. The packages, called snaps, and the tool for using them, snapd, work across a range of Linux distributions[3] and allow upstream software developers to distribute their applications directly to users. Snaps are self-contained applications running in a sandbox with mediated access to the host system. Snap was originally released for cloud applications[4] but was later ported to also work for Internet of Things devices[5][6] and desktop[7][8] applications.
The problem is they don’t care until it becomes an issue which by then becomes harder to fix. I also just really hate snap lol
I think they would care if they knew the benefits of not having snaps.
There's little to no advantage in having them, so why have them?
I recently started using Mint after years on Debian.
I may be weird here, but it has quickly become my favorite distro.
It's snappy and super user-friendly, plus it's been de-Ubuntu-d. Out of the box Flatpak support is just nice to have, and Cinnamon is a sweet de.
I've done my fair share of distro hopping. Mint is the distribution that I have to do the least amount of configuring starting from a clean install.
I use Mint, and I found that it's the best distro for introducing my family to Linux. Those who tried it never asked for their Windows back.
Jokes aside, this kind of gatekeeping behavior is what gives Linux a bad name. Also, you don't have to be a beginner to love Linux Mint.
I was running Linux Mint until the other day when I found out Linux Mint Debian Edition existed so I installed that. I'm a recent Linux convert and I can safely say that Lemmy might have partially been the reason. I've been loving it so far.
There's actually linux mint debian edition rather than ubuntu edition
Mint is great. I love it when shit just works.
Todd Howard Approved™️
Quit Linux? More like quit [non-server revisions of] Ubuntu... Besides, I somehow have an impression that preinstalled crap is among the popular reasons to why ppl leave windows
All the talk of Mint lately. Looks like my fifteen-year Ubuntu streak may be coming to an end. Will I, decidedly not a power-user just an Internet browser, occasional game player, Csound programmer, Libreoffice user notice a difference? Is Mint better at printing? That's the only real problem I've had with Ubuntu over the years.
Out of the mainstream distros what might end up getting bought by Google or even Microsoft, Ubuntu seems to me like the most likely candidate.
I mean, RedHat was once the even more likely candidate, but
Snaps:
On server = good
On PC = bad
Hell no. I can't have my server updating itself without explicit approval, randomly breaking shit at any hour of the day.
You don't have to be a beginner to love Mint. I am very happy that they are putting more energy into the Debian edition. I've tried lots of other distros over the years, and I am just comfortable in Mint.
What are snaps and telemetry?
Snaps are a package format that handle dependencies differently. People don't like them because of increased startup time.
Telemetry is when software sends analytics back to the parent company. Ubuntu does very basic telemetry, but people like to compare it to Windows
Best distro imo right now for desktop. Fedora a close second.
Others like Arch are great too but more for enthusiasts.
Still using Mint, see no reason to change
Linux Mint has a Debian edition available, I'm curious about that one.
And both of them are just remixes of Debian. So why not just use the base distro for all of them?
Debian is not a good distro for the tech illiterate. The point of Linux Mint is to be a good entry point for people to Linux, some will stick to it and that's fair cause it's a good distro, some may move past it. Debian isn't very friendly to noobs. Ubuntu is just garbage, I'd love it to be good but snaps are just that awful.
LMDE and Flatpaks for daily apps.
I like the idea of switching to Linux to break the strangle of windows on my hardware but I don't know if all my games on Steam, Wargamings launcher and Automatic1111 will work properly if I made that switch. I installed Mint for a friend because I'm semi-literate and feel like messing with that....cmd window "terminal" to do...literally anything installation wise would get irritating.
I want a Linux that is as easy to use out of the box as windows. Will Mint be that way or will I have to spend 5 hours figuring out special words for commands any time I want to install something?
I've been using Linux Mint as a daily driver for ten years now.
I personally find Linux Mint to be easier to use than Windows out of the box. For example, you probably don't have to worry about drivers at all; AMD Radeon drivers for example are built right into the kernel, they "just work." In Windows, you have to go out to AMD's website, download and install them.
Linux has an app-store like system called a package manager. Most--including Linux Mint--have graphical ones that work just like the Play Store on Android does, except everything that's in there is free. On a Mint machine, you open the App Menu, go to Administration > Software Manager. To install Steam, you search for "steam" in the box in the top right, and you'll recognize the logo.
This same task can be done from the terminal. You can open the terminal and type sudo apt install steam
I will use both approaches depending on what I'm doing at the time. Like for example, it's faster to install multiple programs via the terminal. sudo apt install steam obs blender audacity gimp shotcut inkscape
would install all those apps in one big thing, no need to sit there clicking through the app store.
Linux Mint won't require use of the terminal very often, it has GUI menus and utilities for most things you'll likely want to do. Sometimes, using the terminal is faster, easier, or more convenient, or just more fun. Yeah there's fun to be had in the terminal. Get on Youtube and look up what "cowsay" does.
Serious question , my laptop is getting old. 7-8, years now I don't want to put money in tech for w new one. I want to use it with Linux , as I just use for very Norma stuff and Zero gaming. My use cases will be use of office, use if browsers, simple image editors, pdf reader and manipulation, copying images from to and from HDD , copying media to HDD etc. Connecting iPhone, android for file uploading download etc.
I don't want hassle of
- Find a reaposiroty, install an extra ackages except for softwares
- Give any command viq terminal. 3.find any dependency for ANYTHING
- Use it as regular person
What Linux will just work? I mean simple install and start using.
Pop!_OS or Zorin features all of those criteria. Mint, a little less. I'd go with Zorin. Everything works out of the box.
Can you opt out of snap on Ubuntu? I've heard some system and essential apps use it, so it might break stuff if you do
If you're basically recreating Linux Mint from scratch, yes.
Linux can be heavily modified, and removing Snap from Ubuntu is no exception. But it's an involved process.
Wait, people think anything besides an official Ubuntu flavor is leaving Linux?