this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023

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201

The world is ignoring war, genocide and famine in Sudan (www.economist.com)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

22 comments fedilink hide all child comments

America is distracted, the UN is not interested

all 28 comments

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (3 children)

America is distracted

Ah, being America; you're the bad guy when you interfere in other countries and you're also the bad guy when you don't interfere in other countries. The same people criticizing America for not doing anything today will turn around and start criticizing America for what they did, no matter what it was, if they get involved tomorrow. Everything you touch is your fault and everything you don't touch is also your fault.

Maybe, just maybe, America shouldn't be expected to insert itself into a Sudanese civil war. Maybe, just maybe, Middle Eastern and African powers should come together to deal with humanitarian crises in their own region and America should be, at most, a partner providing assistance only if and when requested.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The problem is they always meddle for the wrong reasons. Nobody would be bothered if they helped in humanitarian ways.

Mostly it's been:

Cause civil war to put up a corrupt dictator that will let them pilfer the countries ressources
Occupy the country themselves and pilfer the ressources while ignoring the needs of the population
Fund Israel or the Saudis brand new corpse making machine.

So ya, the US probably should help because they can and it's morally the right thing to do, but they shouldn't help like they "helped" Bagdad.

[–] assaultpotato 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

That's not true. Tankies love to shit on the US for "meddling" in Africa when a lot of the time its providing funding and weapons for regimes where the opponents are funded by Russia/Wagner/China. Depending on which way the wind blows, the US is either "overthrowing a legitimate regime" or "restoring the democratic process".

It's a no win. Africa is too weak to stabilize by itself after centuries of meddling, and if the US goes hands-off, Russia and China will just economically enslave them via predatory loans, like how neoliberal policies economically enslaved South/Central America to the US. I'd trust the US installed people for their own populace over Chinese/Russia installed people, given the respective human rights records of all involved.

Anyways, while 2003 onwards was a huge fuck up and absolutely abhorrent, Desert Shield/Storm was incredibly justified defending an ally under armed occupation and still gets shit on by Tankies.

One man's humanitarian mission to shut down a warlord is another man's mission to overthrow a regime and install US-friendly government.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

2003 onward was shit, but before that with what they did in south and central America was pretty shit too. They also always fund the group that will let them grab the ressources, it's never about which group has the best moral position or what's best for the local population. There's better ways to help than funding a civil war, wars that are usually orchestrated into being by them anyways.

Being against American imperialism does not equal being a tankie and I resent the implication. Not everyone that disagrees with you is a tankie.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Don't worry, I'm sure Wagner will come to help "restore the peace" and the Chinese will "lend a hand" by lending them a Chinese police force.

Europe needs to step up to the plate more, we can't carry the entire team with one arm while the other arm deals with a moron who rolled a nat 20 on charisma and a nat 1 on intelligence. That, and his band of morons. Maybe we could back in the day when we had a well-educated population and politicians that didn't get into slapfights over whether or not they look manly by causing the government to shut down. But not now.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

In my experience the people saying "America should help" are almost always Americans.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I agree that the world should pay far more attention but this is an unfair characterization of the UN.

First of all, the UN are putting out regular updates and Sudan's UN coordinator thinks they have got the main players to agree to dialogue:

The resident U.N. humanitarian coordinator for Sudan, said on Friday that the beligerants committed to establishing a Humanitarian Forum, with U.N. participation.

Secondly UNHCR are also trying to deal with a cholera outbreak in Sudan at the moment and literally just sent the 6th flight of humanitarian aid:

The plane delivered more than 33 metric tonnes of supplies for cholera response, including medicines, laboratory supplies and equipment, as well as reproductive health kits for the UN Population Fund (UNFPA).

Edit: plot twist: it's just been revealed that Sudan is telling the UN to leave.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

What would be the expected action?

[+] [email protected] -13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

You know that Palestinians and Jews aren’t considered „white“, right?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Jews can be white-passing and Israelis live a quality of life similar, if not better, than most Americans.

Seeing Israelis get killed is almost like seeing Europeans or Americans getting killed. People from Europe and America knew people who were killed in Israel. I know people, who knew people that were killed in Israel (none myself.)

I don't know a single person who even knows anyone in Sudan. Like it or not, these relationships will affect a nations response to global crises.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know many Sudanese people in Australia, I’ve never met an Israeli person.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Hello, I'm an Israeli person
But yea, most Israeli Jews are not Ashkenazi and actually are Mizrahi jews, you can Google it if you feel like it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Israel has a sizeable Western immigrant population. 20% of Jewish Israelis are from America and Europe.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

^ this - people keep making this assumption and it’s tiring. None of the groups involved in the conflict have European origin. Having diaspora that migrated to Europe ≠ being European or white

[+] [email protected] -14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

White people only care about themselves. they enact special laws and measures and pour in billions of dollars to welcome Ukrainian refugees even at the expanse of local population, but turn a blind eye to the same suffering of people from other races. Big hypocrites with shameless faces.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

The difference is that Sudan depends on food imports from Russia and Ukraine and no one depends on imports from Sudan. If Russia and Ukraine are fighting, Sudan is dying from famine. If Sudan is fighting, no one is affected.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

there's a limit to how many things you can actively care about and it's logical that people will care more about events that are nearer to them

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

even at the expanse of local population

I suggest not parroting far right propaganda, thank you very much.

Also, perhaps don't apply fascist Poland, Hungary or Italy's behavior on the entire EU, there are many millions of Syrian, Iraqi and Afghani refugees in the EU.

Also, European racism is far more complex than white = good, brown = bad, like in the US.
Nazis wanted to eradicate "white" Jews, "white" Romani and "white" Slavic people because of their ""race"". Do you seriously believe current day Nazis love the idea of Ukrainian immigrants? Have you actually seen how racist Germans treat Eastern European immigrant workers from Poland or Romania?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also, perhaps don't apply fascist Poland, Hungary or Italy's behavior on the entire EU, there are many millions of Syrian, Iraqi and Afghani refugees in the EU.

The only difference between those "facist" countries and the rest of the EU is they say the quiet part outloud. Spain is nostalgic for dictatorship, France almost elected Trump with a vagina, and the AFD win more and more every election in Germany. What was their biggest selling point? Brown Muslim bad. The resurgence of right wing politics was caused mainly by the migrant/refugee crisis from Muslim countries.

Also, European racism is far more complex than white = good, brown = bad, like in the US. Nazis wanted to eradicate "white" Jews, "white" Romani and "white" Slavic people because of their ""race""

It's not that complicated.... Muslim (particularly brown) = bad. As an American living in western Europe I've had a front row seat to most of this bullshit. You guys are just as ass backwards as America. No one is winning elections campaigning on kicking out Slavs.

Also there's nothing complex about racism. It's fucking stupid regardless of how you dress it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I'll give you that, racism against brown muslims was the reason they were elected.

But this is not the first time a party was elected because of racism.

No one is winning elections campaigning on kicking out Slavs. But parties have been compaigning against them. Take a look at how media was representing "Russian-Germans" in the early 90's. Spoiler: just the usual. "They're stealing social securities from families, getting everything handed to them....".

Or how populist media has portrayed Greeks after the financial crisis:

Sell your islands, bankrupt Greeks!

This is how Greeks are wasting [our] beautiful euros

You won't get anything from us!

Not a single drop of racism to be seen in here, nope.

Don't get me wrong, anti-Muslim and anti-brown racism is rampant in Europe.

But that's only a subset of European racism, racist Europeans despise any and all refugees, regardless of skin color because they despise amy culture different from their own. Perhaps for the first two months of the Russian war of aggression they pretended otherwise. Afterwards however, the same. Identical. Populist. Talking points. Were used as in 2015.