this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023

145 points (88.4% liked)

World News

38977 readers

2165 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]

Recommendations

How to spot Misinformation and Propaganda

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

145

Greta Thunberg brushes off interruption at massive Dutch climate march days before election (apnews.com)

submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

19 comments fedilink hide all child comments

APNews.com

all 20 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

a man came onto the stage and told her: “I have come here for a climate demonstration, not a political view,” before he was ushered off the stage.

This seems like the way it always goes.

Anytime it’s something the person (any person) complaining doesn’t like, it’s exclaimed that it is “politics”, and shouldn’t be said.

One could argue that no one should be talking about climate change because it’s all politics and political, i.e. pertaining to making decisions in large groups, and distribution of resources.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This was probably said because, Greta gave the microphone to someone giving a speech about the Palestina Israeli war. And the were speeches about the Dutch housing crisis and racism, which are ofcourse important topics but not really relevante on the topic of climate change.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

We were all ready to discuss the politics of climate and climate justice. A talk about the justice of support for countries in Africa dealing with natural disasters while they are responsible for less than 4% of emissions was very well received. The "politics" was someone asking to free palestine and telling us not to vote for the biggest green social party because they are not doing enough for oppressed people. I think we can rightfully say that was too off-topic for this march.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I was there and the interruption happened only a short while after she said everyone deserves a voice. All the guy did was ask to put the focus back from polarizing views to the main goal of the day, a march for a better and more just climate policy. Let's hope this message comes across with at least 70.000 people marching!

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago

Agreed, I don't say you as a person can't hold multiple views on things, but marches and strikes should have a very well defined focus.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I love Greta and agree with what she's doing.

That said, I don't think there's a chance in hell any major power forks over cheap energy while other major powers continue to use it.

It's about economic development. It's not even about you or me willing to live without cars or other dependencies on fossil fuels. It's about dependence on fossil fuel allowing nations to progress faster than those without it.

The powers that be will continue to pull the strings to make sure they have as much control as possible. It's not about Americans competing with Americans. It's about Americans (the west) competing with the Chinese and Russians, militarily and economically.

None of them will give up fossil fuels so long as it remains the cheapest option.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I see many people saying this, and claiming that therefore any protest or attempt at doing anything for the environment is futile. But although it will be hard, protest and change is also necessary. In the Netherlands, aggresive protests have already ensured that fossil subsidies (38 billion euros of subsidies to companies that work with fossil fuels) are a major talking point for the upcoming election. Doing nothing isn't an option anymore.

[–] YungOnions 4 points 11 months ago

Bingo. Well said.

[–] YungOnions 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So, what's your proposed solution? Because at the moment protests like this are working and simply throwing up our hands and saying 'it's impossible' isn't an option. So what to do? I'd argue we keep doing things like this until a better solution is found, what about you?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I never said to stop. Just that I don't expect these problems to be solved.

What makes you think protests are working?

Governments only forego oil when it is no longer the cheapest option.

I think people like you need to accept that some problems are so deeply rooted in global society that we will not be able to solve them without a global shift in culture.

As long as most people think 'progress as fast as possible at any cost,' that's what we're going to do.

[–] YungOnions 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230421-earth-day-the-science-of-climate-change-protest

https://theconversation.com/heres-why-we-need-climate-protests-even-if-some-think-theyre-annoying-172191

https://www.dw.com/en/disruptive-climate-protests-do-they-help-or-hinder/a-61379793

Of course they work. Not as quickly and as well as we might hope, but they do work. You say that a global shift in culture is needed. I agree and these protests are an essential part of shift.

Also, support for wide ranging global change is more wide spread than you might think, and these protests are a example of that: https://www.undp.org/press-releases/worlds-largest-survey-public-opinion-climate-change-majority-people-call-wide-ranging-action

I understand that none of this is easy, but again what are you proposing we do instead? If you believe protests are not enough on their own then what, in your opinion, is the solution? Genuine question. You mention a global shift in culture is required. How? Let's talk.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That's not 'working.' If they were working, then we can expect nations to stop using oil even when it's the cheapest option.

That's not happening, so my point remains that the only thing to stop nations from using oil is for it to no longer be the cheapest option.

We are not going to stop using oil until it becomes too expensive.

but again what are you proposing we do instead

You keep asking me this as though there is a viable solution. I said just said "I think people like you need to accept that some problems are so deeply rooted in global society that we will not be able to solve them without a global shift in culture."

It would take a global shift in culture that doesn't even have to do with oil. It has to do with greed and foregoing progressing as fast as possible to beat out the competition. Until that happens, nations will not stop using oil.

All the promises you see are just posturing by governments to push the problem down the line so they're not responsible for it.

Heck, this was just posed on /c/news today: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/09/alaska-willow-oil-drilling-environment

Unfortunately, it's possible that doing something will have the same effect as doing nothing. Can you understand that?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's also possible that doing something will slowly lead to the shift you're talking about and be better than doing nothing. So isn't it worth trying?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

I never said to stop trying.

It is possible, I just don't think it will happen.

[–] YungOnions 1 points 11 months ago

Yes, I can understand that, but surely you can understand that getting to the point of nations no longer using oil isn't going to happen overnight? That change, that 'global shift in culture' you mention isn't something we'll wake up to tomorrow. They'll be no single event we can point to and say 'see? It's fixed!'. Change will be formed from millions of events, large and small. The point im making is that this change is happening, slowly yes, but it is happening. These protests that you say are not working are part of the very same culture shift you state (correctly) is required.

Also, don't forget that in the space of a few years renewables have gone from basically a pipe dream to being so affordable and upscaleable that oil companies are losing their shit. They know the writing is on the wall and they are doing everything they can to prevent that. You are literally watching their demise. Are they not going down without a fight? No. Are the world's governments still too set in their ways? Yes. Is this change happening too slow? Also yes. But again, it is happening, and I'll take slow change over none any day.

And you know what? Maybe, just maybe doing something will have no affect. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try. The only guarantee of failure is to not even try in the first place.

You seem frustrated by the state of things, and I get that. Its all too easy to read all the negativity in the media and lose track of the wider picture. It's awful watching the powers that be dally and drag their feet whilst the world burns and people die. But let's try and not make our first reaction to positive action, like this story be defeatism.

Here are some good news stories from around the world. Maybe take some time to read them and remind yourself that good things are happening? It's important to stay informed, not just about the bad news but about the good stuff as well:

https://futurecrunch.com/goodnews/

[–] [email protected] -3 points 11 months ago

Underrated comment. There’s some deep understanding. Thanks.

[–] MonkCanatella 6 points 11 months ago

Greta stays winning

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Before Thunberg took the stage, the event was briefly interrupted as a small group of activists at the front of the crowd waved Palestinian flags and chanted pro-Palestinian slogans.

The incident came after tens of thousands of people marched through the streets of Amsterdam calling for more action to tackle climate change, in a mass protest just 10 days before a national election.

Organizers claimed that 70,000 people took part in the march and called it the biggest climate protest ever in the Netherlands.

Political leaders including former European Union climate chief Frans Timmermans, who now leads a center-left, two-party bloc in the election campaign, later addressed the crowd gathered on a square behind the landmark Rijksmuseum.

Tackling climate change is one of the key policy areas for political parties contesting the Nov. 22 general election.

“It is time for us to protest about government decisions,” said Margje Weijs, a Spanish teacher and youth coach.

The original article contains 490 words, the summary contains 155 words. Saved 68%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Compare this to what happenned in the UK were they arrested her and charged her with a Public Order Offense for demonstrating.