this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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Former President Barack Obama cautioned against ignoring the complexities of the Israel-Hamas war, warning that “all of us are complicit.”

“If you want to solve the problem, then you have to take in the whole truth. And you then have to admit nobody’s hands are clean, that all of us are complicit to some degree,” he said in an excerpted interview with Pod Save America released Saturday.

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[–] [email protected] 142 points 1 year ago (9 children)
[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (23 children)

Thank you so much.

This is way more complex than it's getting credit for.

It always has been.

Anyway, I miss having a better leader. He was just so presidential. Not perfect, but no one can be.

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is bad news for Israels current course of action. When the guy who was popular (enough that the current guy could "best friend" his coat tails into office) starts saying this stuff loud enough for everyone to hear, it's intentional. This looks like more subtle public distancing and changing of narrative.

The former president argued that it was important to acknowledge multiple seemingly contradictory truths: Hamas’ actions were “horrific,” but “the occupation and what’s happening to Palestinians” were also “unbearable.”
Obama previously spoke out on the conflict, saying in a statement that any actions by Israel that ignore the human cost of the war against Hamas “could ultimately backfire.”

Israel and it's supporters should be sobered by this soft diplomacy. It's very much aimed at them and the timing should make it clear that they are being isolated.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Funny they never say this kinda shit or act upon it when they have any actual power. Like Eisenhower and his military industrial complex speech.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Presidents/Prime Ministers become beacons of morality once out of office.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It's also pretty rich coming from guy who thought drone collateral was not a problem in Afghanistan.

He's lucky we wasn't president during the last time there was a huge Israeli-Palestinian blowout, otherwise he'd have a 1:1 comparison with Biden.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Voluntarily releasing reports on civilian casualties doesn't seem like they thought it wasn't a problem

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (19 children)

the babies on respirators in gaza hospitals are.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Hamas is hiding in their premature baby bodies

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Honestly, the whole truth of the situation is that the subjugation and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was a direct byproduct/prerequisite of the creation of the Israeli state. We will get nowhere if nobody addresses this fundamental aggravant at the heart of this conflict, that formed the basis for the militarized apartheid system that exists there today. These are just pithy quips about "nobody's perfect" coming from somebody with olympic swimming pools of blood on his hands.

The reality's that the only people with the real vision to create peace in this situation have long been sidelined from the political discussion. I'm really encouraged looking at stuff like https://www.odsi.co/en/ that actually understands the fundamental problems going on here. We'll get absolutely nowhere listening to the political establishment in the U.S. or Israel that spent most of the last century manufacturing this situation.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

Yes but none of us were alive when it happened. Now there'sa nuclear armed ethnostate literally surrounded by (to them) existential enemies, and it just so happens they speak English gud and like the same brand of deity, and let wonder woman move to Hollywood.

Shit is fucked.

[–] coffee_poops 44 points 1 year ago (71 children)

This is bullshit. Israel's response is completely disproportionate. 2000+ children are dead in Gaza.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (28 children)

I don't see where Obama said anything about things being proportionate, and I don't know what "proportionate" has to do with the fact that heinous acts have been taken by both sides.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Terrorists consider civilian casualties to be a scorecard. Hamas benefits when there's Israeli civilian casualties. Hamas also benefits when there's Palestinian civilian casualties.

That's the whole point of taking hostages isn't it? To force Israel into a ground campaign which will cause Palestinian civilian casualties.

The military forces of civilized nations don't consider civilian casualties to be a victory no matter which side it's on. They have an objective and need to achieve that objective while minimizing civilian casualties. The objective of the IDF is to free the hostages. They will make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. But they must achieve that objective even while know civilian causalities are a certainty even when they make an to keep those casualties to a minimum.

This is the nature of war. And this is a war Hamas started. And remember there could be significantly fewer casualties (and a humanitarian ceasefire) if Hamas released the hostages.

But they won't do that because their objective is to maximize the number of Palestinian casualties because many people look at those casualties and become angry and want to support them.

Netanyahu will lose power because of 1400 Israeli deaths. Both Israeli and Palestinian civilian casualties are considered to be a failure by Israelis.

Both Israeli and Palestinian civilian casualties are considered a success by Hamas. They are psychopaths that know how people react to these numbers.

[–] coffee_poops 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Constantly bombs refugee camps, schools, and hospitals This is just war, bro. Yeah we have the 4th most sophisticated and accurate military on earth but we just can't help hitting civilians who just happen to be a minority in their own land...

Dude, the logical hoops you'll jump through to justify a genocide is extremely concerning.

Holocaust scholars all over the world have even condemned the bloodshed.

This isn't the cost of war. It's punishment. It's imperialism.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago (29 children)

Both sides may have fault however there is a fundamental difference between Israel and Hamas. Hamas is a relatively small terrorist group from a region (Gaza) that has been oppressed and had food, water, and electricity limited (even before the war). Meanwhile Israel has one of the largest militaries and occupies Gaza. The death toll and injuries are not even compatible nor the sheer scale of the war crimes committed by Israel.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Well thought out response from someone who knows how to captivate an audience. I miss his leadership even if there were some key flaws during his terms (e.g. the gross overuse of drone strikes).

Ultimately, no president is perfect but I also believe their ability to be a figure head who can make the public look inward, from time to time, is important.

Trump did nothing to lead. He just spread anger and hostility. Biden, while he means well, has never been the beet public speaker (both in presence and in avoiding putting his foot in his mouth).

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

“It’s complicated” is no excuse to be arming an already powerful nation with our tax dollars to make the situation more “complicated.”

If it’s so damn complicated, maybe we shouldn’t be sending arms and tax dollars directly over to Israel, but rather send humanitarian aid to both sides instead.

Taking a side in a complicated conflict of which many people don’t fully understand is an unwise decision, and using tax dollars to arm one or even both sides of a conflict we don’t fully understand is unethical.

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