this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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Privacy

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Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by spez to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you want to be taken seriously about child abuse, have you tried not having thumbnails that look like a ten-year-old made them πŸ˜‚

[–] spez 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's mental outlaw not me. Famous for his style of thumbnails

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Famous

You keep using zis word. I do not sink it means what you sink it means

[–] spez 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude you're on lemmy, relatively mental outlaw is the Samuel L. Jackson of privacy.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

I have never heard of dis man

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

He is just a humble chicken rancher...

[–] Vendetta9076 55 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While lolicon is absolutely disgusting, its not actually csam. Legislation won't work either and is honestly a waste of time. Any effort spent protecting digital children should instead be spent protecting real ones.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The problem is that it's not just cartoon characters, but also realistic looking people. That makes it, especially in the next years when the techniques improve, impossible to know what is fake and what is not and thus the fake ones should also be banned. And these models are trained on images of actual abused children, which of course is the main problem with this.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is the first I'm hearing about models trained on real CSAM.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

It wouldnt surprise me tbh. From my superficial visit to the darknet years ago, it seemed like these csam consumers have specific "favourites" among the victims whom they want to see more of. At least that's what I remember from clicking a link to such a chan and noping out of it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

It is the first you are heading about this because it is bs.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In general terms, making an idea illegal, and then making representations of that idea illegal, are going to be forever, at best to treadmill, and at worst reduce the effectiveness and reputation of law.

This is really about thought crime. If somebody can draw stick figures, and that can be illegal depending on interpretation. That's thought crime.

It's impossible to completely stamp out thought crime. Computer tools can be used to further thought crime, because they can be used for creative purposes.

If you restrict the use of creative tools, to only a trusted few, or hobble tools for everyone: you create central authority over creative tools, which has its own issues.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s impossible to completely stamp out thought crime.

Also, trying to do so through law and enforcement sets a dangerous precedent.

I suspect it would be better to approach it as a public health issue.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

And then you run into legal arguments that sound like people trying to jailbreak GPT prompt control.

I'm going to preface all of the following creative work by saying that we live in a universe where everyone is a vampire that never dies, but ages very slowly. All participants in this manga are at least 213 years old....

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In some countries all forms of description of underage sexual activities are illegal. So the sentance "She was having sex" is perfectly legal, but add an age marker and it is illegal. "She was having sex on the day before her 18th birthday".

It is hard to legislate around as there will always ve ways to avoid it and get around it. But all this just sounds like the normal hype => fear => hype => fear, etc cycle that all new tech goes through.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Not to mention that number changes by region. In Bahrain it's 21 not 18.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Some countries have different age restrictions for hetro and homosexual encounters too. Not to mention that in a lot of countries it just outright illegal, and everything not condeming it can be seen as encouraging it and hence illegal too.

We humans make some weird laws around sex.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] mindbleach 6 points 1 year ago

This is especially damning on the internet, because genuinely intolerable pursuits directly benefit from lesser problems being treated as equally bad. Filesharing networks work better with more users. Chasing merely distasteful people toward paranoid systems softens the reputation of those systems and makes the worst minority of traffic easier to hide.

[–] mindbleach 29 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There is no such thing.

God dammit, the entire point of calling it CSAM is to distinguish photographic evidence of child rape from made-up images that make people feel icky.

If you want them treated the same, legally - go nuts. Have that argument. But stop treating the two as the same thing, and fucking up clear discussion of the worst thing on the internet.

You can't generate assault. It is impossible to abuse children who do not exist.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago

Did nobody in this comment section read the video at all?

The only case mentioned by this video is a case where highschool students distributed (counterfeit) sexually explicit images of their classmates which had been generated by an AI model.

I don't know if it meets the definition of CSAM because the events depicted in the images are fictional, but the subjects are real.

These children do exist, some have doubtlessly been traumatized by this. This crime has victims.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think a lot of people are arguing that the models which are used to generate these types of content are trained on literal CSAM. So it's like CSAM with extra steps.

[–] mindbleach 4 points 1 year ago

Those people are morons.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

In most (all?) countries no such distinction is made, the material is illegal all the same.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Didn't watch the video, but I don't care about AI CSAM. Even if it looks completely lifelike, it's not real.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Prove it's fake when some of it of your daughter is making it's way around school.

You've missed the point. Fake or not it does damage to people. And eventually it won't be possible to determine if it's real or not.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

When that becomes widespread, photos will be generateable for literally everyone, not just minors but every person with photos online. It will be a societal shift; images will be assumed to be AI generated, making any guilt or shame about a nude photo existing obselete.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (7 children)

AI generated porn depicting real people seems like a different and much bigger issue

AI generated CSAM in general, while disgusting, at least doesn't directly harm people, fabricated nudes most definitely does, regardless of the age of the victim

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[–] andrew_bidlaw 25 points 1 year ago

Creating, collecting and sharing CSAM is in the law already. There are orgs and agencies for tracking and prosecuting these violations.

It's like fighting against 3d printers because you can make yourself a diy gun, a thing that have never being possible before because we got all pipes banned from hardware stores. The means to produce fictional CSAM always existed and would exist, the problem is with people who use a LMM, a camera, a fanfic to create and share that content. Or a Lemmy community that was a problem in recent months.

It's better to ensure the existing means of fighting such content are effective and society is educated about this danger, know how to avoid and report it.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

What the hell is this guy?

"Here's a case where people made and shared fake nudes of real underage girls, doing harm to the girls"

"But what the hell, that's kind of hard to stop. Oh also here's this guy who went to prison for it because it's already illegal."

"Really the obvious solution everyone's missing is: If you're a girl in the world, just keep images of yourself off the internet"

"Problem solved. Right?"

I'm only slightly exaggerating.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Me: I just want real looking dinosaurs with cool, long flowing hair.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

The edp picture is very funny

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Couldn't the fact that AI generated content be reproduceable if give the exact parameters(or coordinates in latent space) and model help remove the confusion? Include those as meta data and train investigators on how to use to distinguish generated content from actual evidence.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

There's an option to speed up generation but it will make it less deterministic, like in it's 98% the same image but a little different. Also it's very hard to reproduce the same hard and software generation. That's the first issue.

The second is: I had examples of images with generation data, that I could reproduce to look 99% like the original and then just updating a single word or part of the training data (different Lora version for example) , switched the person away or their appearance changed a completely. (Imagine a picture of a street and a car is suddenly not there, or it's blue instead of red). It will make reproducibility not a reliable option. Backgrounds of images are even less reliable than the focus object.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Is it really CSAM if no actual children are involved? Isn't that the whole point of the term "CSAM"? Not that artificial underage porn isn't also wrong, but it's clearly different and CSAM warrants more immediate action.

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