Yeah? They're terrorists. That's why terrorists do. How is this news?
Or is it just propaganda to help ignore the ~9000 Palestinians killed (most of whom are women and children)?
this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
-6 points (38.5% liked)
Conservative
483 readers
88 users here now
A place to discuss pro-conservative stuff
-
Be excellent to each other. Civility, No Racism, No Bigotry, No Slurs, No calls to violences, No namecalling, All that good stuff, follow lemm.ee's rules, follow the rules of your instance, etc.
-
We are a Pro-Conservative forum. Posts must have a clear pro-conservative, or anti left-wing bias. We are interested in promoting conservatism and discussing things that might get ignored elsewhere. All sources are acceptable, however reputable sources with a reputation for factual reporting are preferred.
-
Dissent is allowed in the comments, but try to be constructive; if you do not agree, then provide a reason which is backed up by references or a reasonable alternative interpretation of the provided facts. That means the left wing is welcome to state their opinions, but please keep it in good faith.
A polite request, not a rule, if you feel the need to report a comment, please don't reply to it.
founded 1 year ago
Yes, it’s Hamas propaganda to help ignore the numbers of dead that are published by Hamas.
Isreal is bombing civilian areas en masse. Do you somehow expect the death count to be lower?
Israel is bombing wherever they know Hamas is operating and hiding. Unlike in recent years they don’t refrain as much from places where the Hamas uses civilians as shields, which the Hamas then uses as propaganda. And yes, that are apartments, schools and at least one hospital. If Hamas were operating like a normal army that tries to protect their civilians, this would not happen.
Yes, ugly things are happening. If you are Palestinian civilian in the Gaza Strip, you are in the middle of the fight between two enemies, but you are shoved into there by one side only, and that is Hamas.
As for the numbers. They don’t distinguish between Hamas fighters and civilians. I don’t know any better, they won’t be small, but it’s still important to consider that they are published by Hamas, which sometimes come in extremely quick, and they remain unverified by other organizations.
Israel is bombing wherever they know Hamas is operating and hiding.
Oh gee, I didnt know that. That sure makes it morally acceptable to kill civilians.
No, that puts Israel in a lose/lose position. They tried lose for a while, but currently they’re running the lose-strategy.
But if you cry out Israel for war crimes, and you don’t do the same for Hamas that makes you a hypocrite.
No, that puts Israel in a lose/lose position
Isreal is not in a lose/lose situation, as the situation is way more complicated than that.
But Isreal definitely has the opportunity to make things better/prevent them from getting worse. They can stop killing civilians. Every civilian area they bomb ultimately creates more terrorists than it kills. They can stop cutting off food and water, which ultimately feeds into the desperation that feeds terrorism.
There is never a situation that demands the blood of civilians. Yet somehow everybody seems to think it's OK when Isreal does it.
and you don’t do the same for Hamas
I do criticize Hamas as well. Both Isreal and Hamas are terrorist organizations that kill civilians en mass. Neither of then should be supported, let alone given billions of dollars for "defense" (read civilian bombings).
On the surface this reads like you would be able to reasoning.
But then
Both Isreal and Hamas are terrorist organizations
Israel is a democratic state (which has chosen an awful leadership in the last three elections or so). By demonizing this as a terrorist organization you’re taking yourself out of any serious discussion.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism
Fits the bill for a government that is intentionally bombing civilian areas.
If they didn't want to be labeled as terrorist, then maybe they should stop bombing civilians.
terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.
This is what the Hamas did on Oct 7.
This is not what the IDF does. Israel is very explicitly telling the civilians to go away. Also in their communication they're very explicitly targeting the Hamas, not all Palestinians. It's the Hamas that uses civilians as shields so that the likes of you can repeat their propaganda of Israel targeting civilians.
But even if the IDF was targeting civilians, that does not make the whole state a terrorist group.
So you're wrong on all accounts.
This is not what the IDF does.
It absolutely is. They are intentionally bombing civilians/civilian areas to reach their political goals.
Telling people to leave doesn't change that, if anything it makes it worse, as doing so contributes to the spread of fear.
Also in their communication they’re very explicitly targeting the Hamas, not all Palestinians.
Talk is cheap, especially when your bombs are landing on civilians.
It’s the Hamas that uses civilians as shields so that the likes of you can repeat their propaganda of Israel targeting civilians.
Killing civilians is never morally permissible. And you need to take a deep look at your morality that is allowing you to defend it.
No matter what objectively horrible shit Hamas does, it doesn't matter. Civilians are off limits.
But even if the IDF was targeting civilians, that does not make the whole state a terrorist group.
By that logic, Hamas isn't a terrorist group either.
Also:
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
What are you talking about? Hamas is not a State, it’s an organization with the foundation idea to remove Israel from the map. It’s not Palestine, and it’s not Gaza.
Furthermore I’m not defending bombing civilians, I’m pointing out that your language is that of Hamas’ propaganda.
Hamas is not a State,
And I'm not here for semantics.
I’m not defending bombing civilians,
You're defending Isreal's actions and therefore the bombing of civilians.
Whataboutism.
I've got not choice, seeing as "liberal" posts aren't allowed here.
You could make a post in any other political sub. Alternatively, not make it all.
You had choices.
I don't understand you. You seem earnest, but continually make out-of-place comments and start arguments. If you are a troll, you're a really good troll.
You could make a post in any other political sub.
I genuinely enjoy arguing. My choices are:
-
Communist subs
-
Conservative subs
-
Religious subs
I used to hangout on r/DebateReligion all the time, but I got bored of it after a while. I have no desire to start shit in communist subs, because any time I bring up even a slightly good point against them, they practically disappear. And i dont particularly care to pass their "leftist enough" tests. So that leaves conservative subs, and as far as I can tell this is the most active one that doesn't outright ban leftists.