this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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What the title says. I think there is still a long way for that to happen but i've been hopeful. What do you think?

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[–] [email protected] 148 points 1 year ago (11 children)

It's possible. I think the biggest obstacle is that the corporations feeding on people's data are not going to just stand by while it happens.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Another big obstacle is the general UX of these platforms. Major companies have teams of user experience analysis and researchers that, while not always "winning" as compared to product or business driven decisions, absolutely have a (generally positive) impact on the product. Onboarding, retention, etc.

The fediverse has all the standard frictions of most OSS, like talking about itself, it's technology, etc when the fact is 99% of users dgaf.

I might go so far as to argue the perceived complexity is a bigger barrier than the risk of sabotage from other businesses. I am optimistic the growing list of third party apps will help solve some of these issues, as long as they take things like the sign up process and server selection into their scope.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

I don't think UX will be that big of a problem, in the past the unofficial reddit apps were all better than the official one. Major companies design by committee and the UX is meant too maximize profit and engagement statistics for advertising, rather than be "good". A lot of open source UIs are better than their paid counterparts. I think PopOS is far nicer than windows 11.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

That and the servers are under such stress that it makes for a stuttery beginning for any new usrrs. Even just trying to upvote you and comment was a process. First this page wouldn't load properly, then then the upvote didn't show, then the screen jumped around when I tried to reply.

This site and any other will only replace Reddit etc if it's got people. It only gets people if new users can use the platform. We're not quite there yet. The people here now are willing to put up with growing pains but if it doesn't improve soon people will move on

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The problem is that everyone has consolidated on one gargantuan server. The whole point of the fediverse is to spread out so no one server is carrying the entire load. I'm currently using lemm.ee and have experienced none of the issues being discussed here.

But yes, I agree that it could be a potential turn off for newcomers.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I’m testing out Mlem on iOS and so far it is a much cleaner experience than even the desktop version of Lemmy’s webapp. Lots of nice QoL features.

https://testflight.apple.com/join/MelFP11Y

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Create an account off of lemmy.world and see if you have the same issues. A smaller instance can handle things easier. It have 2 but use the one that was most up-to-date and responsive.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Even a healthy competitor, niche, or mainstream would be so nice. Lemmy already hits with some solid weight imo.

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[–] [email protected] 102 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I don't think you need to have the largest following to have great value, even lemmy as it is right now feels great. I'll actually want to dive into comment sections compared to the endless scrolling on reddit.

As long as there's enough people using a platform for a variety of ideas and experience in topics, I think that's good enough for me.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally, I don't even want Lemmy/kbin to become Reddit 2.0.

Reddit from 10 years ago is the goal for me. Reddit has become far, far too bloated for its own good, and that line was crossed a long time ago IMO. Let's just enjoy what we have. Let all the normies stay on Reddit, the people I wanna vibe with are here already.

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[–] twistedtxb 21 points 1 year ago

I agree. A vast majority of the userbase don't mind the countless ads on Reddit or Twitter, on even FB. I think people are leaving FB because it's not cool anymore, not because the UE has gotten worse.

I'm just glad that there now are smaller, more tailored for my preferences alternatives like Lemmy

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Big true! I'm actually spending most of my time on Lemmy down in the comment section 😁

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes I think about Hacker News, which isn’t technically sophisticated nor does it have a massive userbase (a little less than 1 million registered accounts).

It manages to have a steady stream of content and an active commenting base

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[–] [email protected] 94 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Not everyone who left Digg went to reddit, and not everyone who left Myspace went to Facebook. "Replacing" reddit should never be the goal, it should be "be better than reddit".

If this is ever to go mainstream, what we should be concerned about is making good, high quality original content. If people see us having fun and being nice here, they'll want to join in too.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

+1 for doing your part to build a nice community!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Quick plug for my own communities:

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 year ago (8 children)

In their current state, definitely not. There is a real bubble effect browsing on Lemmy because it feels like 1 post out of 3 is just praising the platform, but I think they’re far from ready to become mainstream. I’d say there are for now 2 major problems:

  • The global instability (a lot of bugs, many third party apps, but a poor on-boarding with the main website).

  • It was made by engineers and marketed by engineers. The federated aspect should IMO be public and known, but seamless. It should be possible to just create an account and start browsing without having to do some research on how the thing works. The technical aspect of the fediverse is great, but it’s also its main drawback, I believe that hiding it for newcomers could be a way of not scaring them.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

I agree about the bubble effect. I feel it, too, even though I don’t consider myself in a bubble. I truly am enjoying Lemmy and the conversations more than anything else even somewhat similar to it. The smallish nature of the community probably combined with the slightly elevated bar for joining means the riff raff isn’t here in large numbers yet.

Lemmy, today, honestly reminds me of Reddit 15 years ago.

Perhaps this is the bubble effect, but I have a high confidence level in the major third party devs being able to streamline the sign up process. It is already happening in some apps.

The stability problems are another story. I encourage people to go to the front page of their respective communities and look for donation links. Even $1/mo on Patreon can snowball into large sums as Lemmy.World shows.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I agree, but I'm also optimistic because the glitchiness, server performance, and user interface issues are all things that can be fixed in the future.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Yes, but not in the way you'd think.

I think lemmy won't be easy enough to use for a vast majority of users, they'll stick to the traditional platforms.

However, I think if the hype continues for a while, and the little kinks are ironed out soon enough, it will give rise to a new, different kind of platform.

People have this idea that lemmy will replace reddit and just become Reddit 2.0. I think lemmy is still a place similar to a phoenix burning. The new bird has yet to take it's first breath, and it'll be quiet different from what we imagine or what we are used to today

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

@utg @nostupidquestions that’s a great way to put it. We are just starting to see what this new social media fediverse will look lol. It’s exciting!

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Replace? No. Be a valiable second option? Sure. Like in the early 2000 when you had dozens of major forums for certain topics. Something Awful, GameFAQs, Digg, Slashdot, 4chan, NeoGAF… It‘s not a natural law that there has to be one service having 95 % of the discussion market locked up.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes! Very much this. Imagine if lemmy would grow to just a few million users. That's the size of Digg when the migration to Reddit happened! Not everything needs to have a billion users and there's more engagement in small communities anyway.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Well, bugs and UI aside, it seems like Lemmy can work but there's not a lot of substantive discussion right now. The most upvoted stuff are memes and other low effort content. I'm not sure how long a bean meme can sustain serious activity.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The most upvoted stuff, yes, but if you would block those meme communities (or aren't subscribed), you actually do get to the substantive discussion. The problem is the sorting algorithms right now, hot ranks recent 2 upvote posts much too high, while top ignores smaller, less upvote-heavy communities.

We either need something in between or hot to finally take community size into account.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago

We are so used to the idea that a social media network has to dominate the world - ekse it's a failure. If Lemmy, Mastodon, Pixelfed or your old fishing forum is enjoyed by some people, it's a success.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally seems like an almost insurmountable hill to become popular and mainstream. It's not that I don't think it's possible, I just don't think that there is a significant push for it to do so. There's no corporate advertising to help push it.

Is that a problem though? Does it need to become popular and mainstream?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Right! Why does everyone need to be here? Quality over quantity.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I honestly couldn't care less. I rather hangout with you cool degenerates than the rest of the mainstream.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Hey! Who are you calling “cool”?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

I don't understand why everyone is talking about this going mainstream or winning against Reddit. If that happens then in come the corporate interests to ruin it. We don't need to take on the unlimited growth unsustainable business model we can just be happy with what we have

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

I've been on Lemmy for about five minutes; I think that in time it could take a really strong market share from Reddit, because Reddit, even in its success, is kinda niche. The platform just needs to be functional; the communities are what makes it worthwhile. Mastodon, I think, will have a harder time as it's attempting to ape twitter, which is by its nature a bit broader.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

God I hope so, I'm so tired of every aspect of our lives being monetized or having an ad shoved into our faces.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Like a lot of people here have already said, I think a different space is being created for those that are more in the know. The average person just isn't as invested or versed in what's going on to move to a different platform when the current is working fine for them.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

I think we need to see how the content and platform grow organically over time. Reddit is an incredible resource and forum for very niche communities that don't really have a better place to chat outside of Facebook or things like that - where they can remain anonymous.

The whole concept of different worlds connected to communities might scare some people off - but I think naturally new apps will pop up that streamline this whole thing.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It depends what you mean by "mainstream". If by that you imply that the Fediverse will become a true public forum, and a place to exchange ideas and form opinions, then yes, I would like for it to be a counterweight to legacy media and corporate content silos. However, if the fediverse becomes yet another astroturfed propaganda outlet, then no, I do not want it to become mainstream. Fortunately, the loose Fediverse network makes it hard to take over and control, provided that the ActivityPub protocol remains untainted by actions of bad actors.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

While I sincerely hope so, possibly unpopular opinion... Lemmy will have to offer a lot more than "Not Reddit". It'll have to build up as a primary destination for a lot of "content of substance" and culture around creating and nurturing it (just cross posting from Reddit will not cut it). It may have to offer communities and opportunities Reddit bans or suppresses, although there should be some red lines there. And, like all Federated technologies, it will have to actively work to reduce friction for potential users.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How much horrific awkward teenage shit did Reddit have to go through to get where it is now? Bacon narwhals at midnight, rage comics, bullying an uninvolved brown kid into suicide after the Boston bombings, reluctantly removing CP adjacent subs only after being called out on cable news, the /r/fatpeoplehate nonsense, /r/antiwork mod humiliating xirself on Fox News, the woody harrelson rampart ama, fumbling the bag by firing Victoria, probably 20 more.

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[–] sharkfucker420 10 points 1 year ago

I don't want it to. I want lemmy to stay niche but active

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

All I need are the quality people and post and reply from reddit to join lemmy

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Let go of that thought. Reddit is (probably) here to stay. Lemmy will have less users, less communities, and tbh, probably less quality content. That's okay. Grow your seeds.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I actually think the opposite. Reddit is here to stay, sure. But Lemmy will become a more niche space and with better quality for those interested, but not necessarily mainstream, and that's ok.

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[–] Feweroptions 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The average user does not care enough about the reasons that drive people off the mainstream social media - in short, they're idiots. So, no, these won't replace the shitty mainstream solutions, because most people just have no clue that they really should.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I doubt it would ever get to a full replacement, but that's fine. It doesn't have to become the new Facebook to still be competent and successful in it own right.

By their nature, both Lemmy and Mastodon will be unlikely to have the same kind of reach, simply because they have the added complication of Federation and all of that on top of everything, which complicates things a bunch.

You also have some decent competitors starting up, which would also split things. Lemmy is competing with Reddit, and the similar services, like Kbin/Threads/Tildes.

Sure, the competition is a bit less direct for sites that Lemmy Federates with, but it's still going to split the user base in some way.

Lemmy also has a few technical hiccoughs and other issues that get in the way of it really becoming popular as it is now. Lemmy.world, pretty much the biggest instance around, suffers from several issues where the code-base simply wasn't designed for the sheer volume of users and activity that they're seeing.

Lemmy's devs would have to go and fix those problems before it could sustainably become a mainstream app.

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