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submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

From https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/14phpbq/how_is_it_possible_that_roughly_50_of_americans/

Question above is pretty blunt but was doing a study for a college course and came across that stat. How is that possible? My high school sucked but I was well equipped even with that sub standard level of education for college. Obviously income is a thing but to think 1 out of 5 American adults is categorized as illiterate is…astounding. Now poor media literacy I get, but not this. Edit: this was from a department of education report from 2022. Just incase people are curious where that comes from. It does also specify as literate in English so maybe not as grim as I thought.

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[-] [email protected] 135 points 1 year ago

If you don't understand, start walking further away from the cities.

If you still don't understand, you're not done walking.

[-] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago

There's a slight gradient in literacy when looking at grade level but it's not really accurate with illiteracy. Seems cities can still have a considerable population that can't read.

https://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/StateEstimates.aspx

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[-] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

If you think the problem is in the countryside, you've never been to New York City, and particularly the Bronx.

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[-] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago

Walk far enough into certain cities and you’ll see the same problem. It’s very closely tied to socio-economic class and a self perpetuating problem.

[-] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago

To add to this, I think people often underestimate how "easy" it can be to function in society without being able to read well. I know that some folks who either don't read at all or read at a very low level have just gotten used to interpreting the world around them without the language part. For example, visually recognizing a username and password field on a website and knowing what they're for, or recognizing the symbols and colors used for certain objects or meanings, all without the actual words needing to mean anything to them for them to understand what it is and what to do with it. And for those who can read at a 5th or 4th grade level (and would thus be included in the stat mentioned in this post), they're likely then very capable of reading and understanding the majority of text they're going to come across in their day-to-day lives.

Of course, I don't want this to sound like I'm saying being illiterate is easy, I'm sure it creates MANY barriers and difficulties for the person, but I do think humans are also flexible and resilient, and are able to survive using other cues.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

It sounds so much harder than just reading.

But I believe it. I work in law and often need clients to respond in writing to questions (so we have a record of their answers). The barely-coherent poorly-spelled responses we get are astonishing - and often from pretty well educated, smart people with high level jobs (after all, they can afford a lawyer).

[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

You have it backwards actually. You need to walk further into the cities to see the really poorly-educated.

Here's the actual data. Look at Illinois for example. All the rural counties are right around 8% functional illiteracy. Then Cook County (Chicago) is literally double at 19%. The trend seems to repeat in every state.

[-] [email protected] 117 points 1 year ago

So I am a researcher by trade in this field, got a PhD, and develop these kinds of stats (at a more local level). I also have taught basic adult literacy for about 15 years. I think the poster was likely referring to an NCES stat.

We tend to think of adults with low English literacy as people who dropped out of school or never went. We also tend to think "illiterate" is binary, you can read or you can't. But the definition is based around grade-level reading (what can you identify and synthesize from standardized text in English in a given time frame) and inclusive of a broader population. We're talking about people who can't pick up a copy of USA today and tell you the main idea of a front-page article. They can drive, they can work, etc. So they get along and this issue get ignored.

For example, some stats on illiteracy will count "non-participants" among those who can't read/write, but this includes people in the study with cognitive disabilities or language barriers to the point that they can't take the reading test. The share of U.S. adults who are functionally illiterate in English includes some non-native English speaking adults and also a couple generations of folks with reading diasbilities who passed through school, AND people who didn't read for myriad other reasons.

I have tutored older adults learning to read/write for many years and have met a lot of people who ran businesses or raised families or worked full careers before learning to read. Adaptable and clever bunch. And even many U.S.-born native English speakers who got shuffled through high school despite serious disadvantage and/or disabilities.

[-] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

people who can’t pick up a copy of USA today and tell you the main idea of a front-page article

Thanks! Suddenly America makes a lot of sense now.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

the definition is based around grade-level reading (what can you identify and synthesize from standardized text in English in a given time frame) and inclusive of a broader population. We’re talking about people who can’t pick up a copy of USA today and tell you the main idea of a front-page article.

Purely anecdotal, but I know someone who is a tenured professor at a university that will flat out refuse to answer any question that has too much supporting detail around it. As in, if you say "for this part of the assignment, I'm doing..." and proceed to describe your attempt at problem solving over four or five sentences, asking if what you've done is correct or close to it, and he will simply respond with "there's too much here to unpack, sorry," and refuse to answer the question. But if you do it in person, like verbally read out the same paragraph you wrote, he can understand and answer it. There's other things, too. He can type out simple sentences, but has a very poor grasp of spelling, frequently getting very simple words wrong (think different versions of there, their, and they're). It's genuinely baffling how he got to that point, but he also hasn't ever really published material and it kinda makes sense why. Dude has a doctorate in a STEM field and I think the reason for that is that he can understand mathematics, but literally can't understand complex writing. Any idea that takes more than a single sentence to explicate just evaporates out of his head.

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[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Very interesting read! I’m from Germany and taught myself English. I’m currently at a C1/B2 level (it’s a European standard I think?) and consider myself good enough to move through English speaking countries independently just fine.

I’m basically studying English every day by reading and watching YouTube exclusively in English. Love it!

It’s a shame that many people don’t bother honing their language skills.

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[-] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago

Because the government, federal and state level (especially conservative) hate public education and fight to defund it as much as possible. Largely because an educated populace is a dangerous populace. Especially when your political platform relies on identity politics, culture wars, cheating, screwing over the poor, opposing minorities, religious fundamentalism, and any other regressive, oppressive bullshit you can think of. They want stupid voters that they can point at "the enemy" and pit against each other to distract them from facts, all so they can stay rich and powerful.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

It's because a lot of conservatives believe in a really screwed up, masochistic, bastardized version of Christianity that prioritizes vengeance, punishment, and anger. It ignores the love, kindness, acceptance, and mercy (ie the actual teachings of Jesus) that make society work well.

So, when kids come home with these new ideas about kindness and acceptance, because being kind to a gay classmate is a great way to demonstrate the love real Christianity teaches and society values, the parents freak out. They push to ban books, fire teachers, and move their kids to private schools that more match their hate filled, divisive worldview. Education polluted their child with abnormal, liberal indoctrination, like being kind, empathetic, and accepting of others.

I an attempt to steer their children back to their core values of hate and divisiveness, they lash out. Any pushback the parents feel in response becomes persecution, because of course "the world" would disagree with them. They're the TRUE Christians afterall. So they isolate in ecochambers, and they get more hateful. Any difference of opinion is met with derision and just simply validates their position. And despite being the TRUE Christians, or REAL conservatives, they become less Christian and less conservative every day, instead just becoming these weird, evil, empty husks of people with no real values or ideals outside of hate.

[-] [email protected] 63 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No single answer is comprehensive enough to explain the low literacy levels in the US. That’s because some of the contributing factors include:

  • Parents with little schooling.
  • Lack of books and reading encouragement at home.
  • Dropping out of school.
  • Difficult living conditions – including poverty.
  • Learning disabilities.

Each of these topics has social and political implications and we, as a society, have made choices that privilege the rich and the least vulnerable. Our immediacy leads us to focus on inflation rates, employment, and reelection (don’t get me wrong, these are essential points). But we should also seek solutions to bring parents back to school, campaign for more books at home, and improve schooling to prevent dropout.

The discussion of U.S. illiteracy gets gloomier when we consider the differences between “literacy” (reading, writing, and math skills) and “functional literacy” (the practical use of these skills to manage daily life and improve socioeconomic well-being).

There’s a long and rocky road to reverse this picture, and some of the possible solutions to promote higher levels of literacy in society should take into account:

  • low income resources
  • stigma and shame
  • lack of awareness
  • limited access to education
  • technological barriers
  • limited funding for literacy programs.

So, how is it possible that roughly 50% of Americans can’t read above a 6th grade level and how are 21% just flat out illiterate?

All of the above, and probably more!

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[-] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago

Part of the reason so many can’t read above a 6th grade level is that they are always written to on that level. Anything written for any commercial purpose is always written at a low level so any idiot can understand the menu / read the packaging / consume the magazine ad / whatever. Commercial writers write for the lowest common denominator and to an extent, news media do as well.

So a 6th grade reading level is really all you need to get by. Unless you actually read books or opt for The Economist or something else that doesn’t assume you’re a moron, 6th grade level is all you’re gonna see.

There’s some utility in this. Simpler language is also lowest-common denominator for second-language-speakers, of which we have many. Another reason to use it.

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[-] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago

This disaster did not come about by accident. The whole country has allowed our public schools to decline, but the conservatives have been actively working to destroy them since the 80's. They have been leveraging racism, fundamentalism, and other prejudice-based fears to undermine the curriculum. Meanwhile, they have cut school funding, made teaching a terrible job, and downplayed the value of formal education. Educated people are much harder to manipulate. A minority trying to hold onto power needs a public that is poorly educated and without critical thinking skills.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

As the spouse of a teacher, I completely agree. Add to that the complete lack of authority the schools and teachers have. You can have a child that desperately needs assistance but if the parents say no or are just lazy, nothing can be done. I have repeatedly been exposed to just how gutless the school district is here and I assume it is the same in most US schools. They are terrified of parents being upset with the to the extent that classrooms become unmanageable because of one troubled student who is allowed to run amok because the school won’t do anything and their parents don’t care.

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[-] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago

I’m not an expert, but I have to imagine it’s in relation to the fact that public education in the United States tends to be rather underfunded. Teachers often don’t have all the resources to do their jobs effectively, and many resort to paying for resources out of their own pocket.

Pair that with the fact that the average salary for a teacher in a public school is almost criminally low for a position that has a massive impact on our social outcomes, and you get students that are disengaged and overall not as prepared as they could be.

This is all just what I’ve gathered from reading news articles over time. I’m sure there are several other factors at play.

[-] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago

It has far more to do with parents than teachers for basic literacy. If a family/child doesn't read at home, the child will never get enough practice to achieve a high level of comprehension.

My grade 5 child already reads at a grade 9 of 10 level, but we read together every night and have done so for the last decade of his life. His room has more books than toys.

His average schoolmate has an Xbox in their room instead of books. He complains about it all the time. The electronic device in his room is his kindle.

[-] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago

Cuba didn’t achieve 98% literacy by having a country of concerned parents. They had a massive education push with basically unlimited support from the government.

Placing the responsibility of America’s failure to educate its populace on individuals is honestly kind of insidious. America needs to dedicate resources to education. Period. Their failure to do so is why so many Americans are dumber than stumps.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

They didn't achieve that rate through childhood education investmemt. They spent a few years forcing (as in it wasn't optional) adults to become literate too. At the peak about one in ten cubans were involved in teaching others, they even closed schools early at one point and literally drafted 100k students to go teach adults.

The parents weren't needed because an even higher power stepped in to mandate things and actually could and did enforce it.

The US government doesn't have the political authority to mandate such a thing, the rights of individuals are very strong in the US, including the right to be ignorant. Parental involvement is the only realistic option to improve the current situation.

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[-] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago

As a school psychologist who completes academic assessments when identifying students with learning disabilities, COVID skyrocketed these numbers. There's just not a lot of motivation for kids anymore. The future is here and is making our population slowly illiterate.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That 'motivation' bit is so important. Former educator, currently still working in education, and I'm always wary of anything that makes a sweeping statement about 'the kids' not being 'all right'. But there are important, substantial contributors to undesirable outcomes that need to be acknowledged. Poverty being one, as well as the cycle of poverty and abuse which is deeply tied to white flight and de-industrialization (which we might collectively assign to the death of the American dream if we aren't too concerned with being precious about the the notion of patriotism).

Saying 'iPads' or 'TikTok' is the culprit doesn't help anyone. But iPads and TikTok are contributing factors because they both exacerbate the feeling that being entertained is enough to scrape one's way through life at the bottom of the barrel of expectations...as well as over-informing young people (and adults) that there is positively nothing left to look forward to. Industry is collapsing, housing and transportation are unaffordable, everything you once expected to purchase (and let's not get lost talking about purchasing as a metric for determining whether one is living a good life) has now moved to an ever-bleeding subscription model; inflation is compounded by corporate greed (and maybe we should talk about how the business incentive of endless growth contributes to every other problem) and corporate greed (something no one but the executives and their shareholders can influence, let alone control) is raping all the natural splendor, wealth and even health and stability of the very ground we walk on and air we breathe.

Why the fuck wouldn't some young person whose future job prospects (which were shit to begin with) are being devoured by AI, just turn toward the boundless font of readily accessible entertainment rather than going uphill toward seemingly fruitless self improvement? Why would they bother to rise to the level of literacy that allows them to appreciate a 19th century classic translated from the original Russian, or to parse the dense theming of some modern masterpiece? What's the reward, to someone whose entire life to this point has been flavored with instant gratification? To them it's all just 'content', and there's plenty of content more accessible than literature. Art may mean nothing for many reasons, not least of which is it can be falsified to a level of acceptability (AI songs by dead artists, for example).

It's a Twilight Zone, Black Mirror, Brave New World living nightmare. But what is the alternative? What systems or entities or organizations are coming to save the day? There are none. This moment is a gruesome forbidden experiment: it is a post-Reaganite, neoliberal race to the cultural bottom, and the youngest generation are the lab rats.

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[-] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago

One small part of the problem I only learned about recently is the Whole Language approach to teaching reading. Basically teaching kids to guess what words make sense instead of actually teaching them how to read. It was popularized in the 80s and 90s but continued to be used in some parts of the US into the 2010s. An entire chunk of the US population (and a few other countries as well) was literally not taught phonics/sounding it out because their teachers or schools followed this ineffective alternative method.

Of course that's far from the only factor, but it's one many aren't aware of.

[-] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

That was me in the early 80s. It's why I took first grade twice.

I was lucky though. My mother just happened to be a remedial reading teacher. So after she tried every other option, she broke down and finally tried phonics. That was the missing piece. it suddenly all made sense to me.

Turns out memorization is my biggest learning disability. It would be impossible for me to memorize thousands of words. But with some work, I could memorize the sounds of a couple dozen letters.

After that I was a reading machine.

Still can't spell for shit though. Been relying on spell check since the 3rd grade.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Well either you or spell check did a pretty decent job with that there post.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

It's a team effort.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

As a European I don't even know what you mean, could you elaborate or provide further reading if possible?

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[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Is THIS why hooked on phonics was such a big thing they pushed in the 90s?

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[-] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago
[-] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

They want everyone uneducated because the more educated you are, the more likely you are to vote democrat. Hence all the defunding of school programs

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[-] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago

My girlfriend is a math teacher, the number of middle schoolers that can’t do basic multiplication before is surprisingly high. Yet the schools keep passing the kids. I remember learning multiplication as a 4th grader, if I hadn’t, I would’ve never passed.

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[-] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago

Everyone is very focused on recent history. What about the huge amounts of aging immigrants in the USA that migrated here for a better life in the 50s-70s from poor countries and no education? They just worked their ass off and reading wasn't a priority. My father was a poor shepard, no education and illiterate but he hustled and retired early and put me through college to be an engineer. It seems improbable but it is possible for someone to be illiterate and wildly successful and contribute a lot to society and culture.

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[-] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Schools cannot force students to learn. A lot of people are having kids because of social/societal expectations, lack of sex education, or lack of access to birth control rather than because they actually want to. As a result they are much less involved in their childrens' lives and expect schools to take care of raising their children for them. Stagnating wages and rising cost of living from inflation or corporate greed or whatever you want to call it means that even parents who do care are often too busy trying to make ends meet to be active parents. I suspect all of the above factors also correlate to parents who are not very well educated themselves.

If kids do badly, rather than encouraging or incentivizing them to do well or addressing their behavioral issues, these parents will instead blame the teachers. It is getting to the point where this is the case for the majority of students in many places. I have friends who teach in selective private schools, which would in theory correlate to more resources for students and more involved parents, but even there they are starting to see this.

Schools don't have the resources to address this crisis properly; schools are funded by tax dollars so teacher pay and overall school funding have stagnated along with wages. Schools cannot fail every student or hold them back a grade, and they are also incentivized to have high average grades, so they end up lowering their standards and graduating students who are not properly educated.

My personal, cynical take on this is that a subset of people in positions of political power realize that uneducated people are easier to manipulate for their own gain, and therefore deliberately support policies that have lead to the deterioration of educational standards. Additionally, business profits are maximized, at least in the short term, by maximizing the number of people living on the brink of bankruptcy. Every cent that the average person saves or invests or passes on to their children is a cent that is not being added to the billionaires' hoards. Less educated people are easier to manipulate into voting politicians who allow this to happen into power, which gives large corporations an incentive to help the aforementioned politicians get elected.

[-] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

My wife is a teacher. She had a student that would do no work in class, or even detention after.

Suddenly would have a college level writing skill at home.

Kid could not replicate or even summarize what was in his essays at school.

When the parent was contacted and was asked why the kid performs so poorly at school and suddenly the vocabulary and sentence structure is amazing at home is because my wife sucks and should “do better”

Admin would not confront or address the issue.

It happened 3+ times with the same student last year. This is at one of the better schools in the state.

[-] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

If you want to know the truth, it's because America prioritizes almost everything above education in the money department. And while I enjoy making sure that Putin can't take over countries do to America's astronomically large defense budget, and help from other countries, we could probably use some of that money to help education, but you can't do that because what is cheaper/free college going to do for the military? That's right, cut in to the people who go to the military for free/cheap education. there's more to it but that's the gist, is that military eats up most of the federal spending, and then what trickles down to states, counties, and cities, is done as those people see fit. Some schools, cities and counties do well, but Michigan, and the south really aren't helping things, plus you have teachers paid poorly, who may of had a love for teaching, be stressed out all year around, and they may tell that kid who is an annoyance in class that he can have the easy book because they won't shut up and bring a nuisance, to let them read some small chapter book or something for a report than not. I've seen it happen plenty when I was in high school. But it boils down to money mostly.

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[-] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

Income disparity, communities where education isn’t supported, underfunded education, book burnings, tv/internet/gaming they've all had an impact. Add covid to the mix and burnt out parents and it’s all coming to a head

[-] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Hard to use the internet and game without being able to read. I'd say overall both of those would trend an average consumer's reading ability past 6th grade level, but maybe I'm underestimating what qualifies as that level.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Tons of games with very little reading involved and people who do video content eg TikTok or YouTube rather than reading posts

[-] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

The republican right wing has been de-funding public schools and decrying all education as leftist indoctrination for about 50 years.
Actions have consequences, or in this case, results.

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[-] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

As a non-native English speaker, suddenly I feel more proud of myself.

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[-] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The Every Student Succeeds Act, which is the successor to the No Child Left Behind Act, puts the accountability for education in the hands of individual states rather than the federal government.

Journalist Libby Nelson wrote that the ESSA was a victory for conservatives who wished to see federal control of school accountability transferred to states, and that states "could scale back their efforts to improve schools for poor and minority children".

The overall effect is that education standards are lowered so that low-performing students can "succeed" (receive a passing grade) without being forced to actually learn.

And later the accountability requirements for states were removed:

In March 2017, Republican lawmakers with the support of the Trump administration used the Congressional Review Act to eliminate the Obama administration's accountability regulations.

So the real answer to your question is because Republicans are stupid and shortsighted and they want to keep the general population uneducated so they can be more easily manipulated.

[-] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

Same everywhere. I think 53% of people in Quebec are functional illiterate. There is an article today about French students being illiterates too.

The educational system wants this. I start to think it's by design.

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[-] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Because you have a deleterious government that has purposefully de-prioritised education in order to command greater control over a brainwashed population.

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[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Think about what kids read in 6th grade - Call of the wild, Holes, Black Beauty, etc. Then look at the grammar of people who post here. I was taught that basic newspapers are written at a 3rd-4th grade level.

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this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2023
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