this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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Ukraine’s Jewish president says world must stand united against terror as Hamas launches deadly surprise assault

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, whose country is fending off a Russian invasion, said Saturday that Israel had an unquestionable right to defend itself from attacks from Palestinian terrorists.

The Hamas terror group launched an unprecedented assault on Israel in the morning, firing thousands of rockets, sending gunmen into Israeli communities and military bases by land, sea and air, killing at least 200 people, injuring over 1,400, and taking hostages.

“Israel’s right to defense is indisputable,” Zelensky, who is Jewish, said on Telegram.

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[–] [email protected] 100 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Believe it or not, it is possible to publicly defend Ukraine, be against the long-standing brutality that Israel has dealt to Palestinians, and also be horrified about the thousands of years of injustice that Jews have faced in history.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Nuanced political discourse will not be tolerated on the Internet.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

It seems half decent on tildes

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago

Certainly, being that is possible. Acting on it is harder. Acting on it without being ripped to pieces by at least someone might be impossible.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

and also be horrified about the thousands of years of injustice that Jews have faced in history

Yes you can. And at the same time you can also condemn the illegal territorial anexations of palestinian territory by Israel. I'm part jewish myself and I don't support that crap. Just respect the internationally recognized borders and please, stop committing human rights violations (ON BOTH SIDES)

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 10 months ago (7 children)

And what about palestianians defending themselves form Israeli terror? Or do brown people not get that right?

Or if everything Israel is doing is "defending itself" then maybe we should let Russia "defend itself" against Ukrainian terror?

[–] [email protected] 71 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

It's a stupid article that didn't deserve reposting.

Zelensky is obviously going to take Israel's side, since Israel might actually provide Ukraine with weapons, aid, or intelligence, whereas Hamas will provide Ukraine with nothing and is aligned with Iran who are actively supplying Russia with the drones that are murdering them.

But yeah, from an analagous standpoint, Israel would be Russia who has illegally occupied the land of Palestine, and this is roughly the equivalent of Ukraine striking back at Russia in Russia's territory, though there certainly seem like far far more civilian casualties than in any of Ukraine's operations, at the same time Palestinians are also far more desperate and have face decades and decades of oppression, conditions likely to foster extremism.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Also ukraine has high tech guided munitions and drones. Hamas has incredibly low tech and Inaccurate rockets.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 28 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Their rockets were born without the first sin.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Damn is that why ours keep killing kids?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

It's why ours do it without remorse. :-(

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

*inaccurate.

Side note: how do we live in a world with ChatGPT but still have such awful autocorrect?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

There's another way to spin the analogy, and I believe that's closer to what Zelensky had in mind.

Both Russia and Hamas target civilian buildings with rockets. Both recently advanced in a military invasion into the sovereign territory of Ukraine / Israel. Both kidnapped and murdered citizencs. So the analogy is Russia / Hamas vs Ukraine / Israel.

I think it's a bit weird Zelensky would ally with a country which behaves like Russia from his point of view. I agree he probably might still do it, since he needs the weapons. But given this incentive, I think the alternative analogy becomes far more appealing and convincing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Both Russia and Hamas target civilian buildings with rockets

Thats disingenuous. While im sure Hamas would have 0 problem with targeting civilians if they could, the reality is their rockers are far too primitive to target much of anything.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Eh, that alternative analogy is a worse one though, since it falls apart the minute you look at Israel's past indiscriminate killing of civilians and current unilateral and internationally condemned occupation of Palestinian territory.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 10 months ago (1 children)

gunning civilians down during a music festival is "defending themselves" now? God I'm sick of people outright defending literal monsters. IDF and Hamas are both evil organisations. the people being killed on both sides are not. I cannot understand how anyone can sit here and justify killing civilians on any side for any reason.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Tbf to him, there's a significant difference between taking their own land back between Ukraine and Palestine

When Ukraine fighting back against illegal occupation they didn't purposely target the civilian while Russian is the indiscriminate one.

Hamas's goal is to take their land back while also trying to wipe Jew off the map. Them parading a woman's naked dead body tells it all, they're as savage as the Israeli that treat Palestinian as sub-human. All far right Muslim across the globe hate Jew because of what Israel does for decades.

If tomorrow Putin suddenly gave back all occupied territories including Crimea, Ukraine will stop. If tomorrow Netanyahu gave back all occupied territories, Hamas will not stop until Israel did not exists.

So yeah, for Ukraine vs Russia, one side is the terrorist. For Palestine vs Israel though, both side is terrorist.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 10 months ago (9 children)
[–] [email protected] 36 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Fun fact about that Zionist army in 1948, it was made up of literal terrorist organizations, one of which (the Lehi) wanted to fight alongside the Nazis during WW2 because they hated the British so much.

Hitler said no to their offer of support. But the offer apparently reached his desk. Well, offers. They tried multiple times in 1940 and 1941.

The sort of mind that it took to want to join with the Nazis after Kristallnacht...

One of the Lehi's main activities during the build up to the 1948 war, was to assassinate Jews who they viewed as "traitors" i.e. Jews who cooperated with or were friendly with either the British, or Arabs (Palestinians). Add in a few bombings and the odd mass rape/massacre, and you have one of the bloodiest terrorist organizations of the mid-century.

Anyway, in 1980, all the surviving Lehi members got medals of honor from the Israeli government."for military service towards the establishment of the State of Israel"

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

This infographic very conveniently leaves out that 1948 is the result of the Arab Israeli War, where civil war tensions resulted in several Arab nations occupying Palestine to take over Israeli land.

I'm not going to say that Israel shouldn't have given it back to the Palestinians, but it's very dishonest to leave out the war and simply say Palestinians were expelled.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Personally, it's hard to agree with either side when there are very clearly religious motivators. Both sides have done things that are clearly wrong. It's not about people vs state, or people vs foreign state, it's always framed as Jewish vs Muslim. It's hard to imagine a future where each side does not stop until the other is wiped out. It's hard for people of different religions to live in harmony when the state is so intertwined with religion. Israel gets a lot of international support because at least they have a relatively stable government.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (6 children)

It's also hard to imagine people will live in harmony when one side literally enforces an apartheid regime on the other side.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If nothing else, Zelensky knows he has to toe the American policy line. I don't blame him, really. It's self-protection.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

I mean he does need those israeli anti missile shields so I get where he's coming from. But this is straight up hilarious. Israel is occupying Palestinian terriroties ilegally just like Russia is doing in Ukraine.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

Of course it does, just like any other nation. In this case, the extreme islamists don't care about geopolitical resources like land or oil. They care about exterminating Jews. Plain and simple. If Hamas had free reign, they would execute every last person on planet earth, including you, unless you converted to Islam. It's in their ideology--dying in a holy war against non-muslims is the ticket to eternal life. That's literally what they believe. And because of that, they sew chaos and terror wherever they go.

Clearly the large majority of muslims do not believe this way. But the extremists do, and that's how history is made. The peaceful, normal civilians who'd rather just live their lives, aren't the decision makers. And of course this all traces back to a long series of stupid decisions and badly drawn maps after the world wars. But make no mistake, Hamas is no different than Nazi Germany in their desire to exterminate Jews, and eventually they will need to be dealt with in exactly the same way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Exactly. No issues with moderates, but moderates aren't the ones suicide-bombing and throwing suspected gays off the top of buildings. An Islamic society creates safe spaces for the extremists, and the extremists will do whatever they can to take power.

Other Muslims are the ones targeted most by Islamist extremists. It's in the Muslims' best interest that they be kept a minority and out of power. There is insurmountable evidence that when the majority is Muslim, life gets worse for everyone, women's rights are stripped away, and freedom of thought and religion is gone.

Quite similar to how if Scientology became mainstream we would all be worse off.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

There is insurmountable evidence that when the majority is Muslim, life gets worse for everyone, women’s rights are stripped away, and freedom of thought and religion is gone.

Quite similar to how if Scientology became mainstream we would all be worse off.

The last sentence hints both might have a common cause whis is not "being Muslim". I think it might be "being extremist". The opposite would be a pluralist society, which embraces diversity and encourages respectful coexistence and exchange.

This then also includes the rise of right-wing populists in democracies all over the world, with exactly the same consequences as you said.

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