this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

American high school teacher here (Midwest region). We implemented a policy this year banning cellphones in instructional spaces during instructional time. Enforceable by confiscation if teachers saw or heard a phone. We have a strong set of administrators who supported teachers in any case where there was student pushback. It has been a huge success in terms of limiting distractions during instructional time. All of our students are provided Chromebooks so there really isn’t much of an instructional reason to have phones anyway. It has also contributed to a drop in student-on-student behavior problems.

I do feel for the girl in this article for whom it was used as a coping mechanism for bullying. No policy comes with zero downsides. However, it sounds like she was allowed exceptions in certain cases, which is exactly what should happen.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

I do feel for the girl in this article for whom it was used as a coping mechanism for bullying. No policy comes with zero downsides

Right, it's kind of a trolley problem. Is it better to do lesser harm through action (banning cell phones, meaning a few students like this can't reach their family during school hours), or greater harm through inaction (loose cell phone policy, harming the learning process for everyone, inviting violence against teachers who are competing against addictive algorithms for their students' attention)?

Cell phones barely existed when I was in school and were certainly out of reach for students. Bullying still happened (personal experience, yay) and staff would shut that shit down when they saw it or it was reported.

[–] Grennum 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I also went to school with no cell phones, and was bullied mercilessly. Staff didn't care then, and I doubt they care now. I'm glad you went to a school where the adults cared.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm surprised that this wasn't something that was already implemented. When I was in highschool in the early 2000's cellphones would be instantly taken away if they were spotted by a teacher during class.

I don't understand parents needing constant contact with their children. As a kid I would've hated that, helicopter parenting x1000.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The article mentions kids being able to call their parents when being bullied. Having an emergency contact option is always useful.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Understandable, but I doubt much bullying is happening during class time, where I feel that having cellphones put away would be the most beneficial. Several times I've been asked to put my cellphones in pouches that set off alarms when opened during small comedy shows/concerts, I feel that might be an alright solution to in class device lock down. Then when the class is over phone can come out.

In terms of bullying I think that's more a failure of the education system that these students don't have someone to turn to, in the faculty, to deal with it. It sucks because I couldn't imagine what bullying is like now in the digital age. I always felt that teachers and admins never got enough power to deal with severe bullying without blow back from parents.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

At my high school most of my teachers didn’t allow cellphones in class, and would take them away for the period if they caught the student more than once.

There isn’t a lot of need for cellphones in a classroom, especially if the students have access to school laptops/computers.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

I assumed cell phones would be banned in classrooms. When I was in school any sight of a walkman would get it taken away!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When I was in highschool (late 10s) you were allowed to have your phone on you in class, it wasn't instantly taken away if they saw the outline in your pocket, but you weren't allowed to use it in class.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

T9 texting without looking at your phone is a lost art.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As an adult with mild ADHD I can admit that my cellphone poisons productivity. I can imagine not doing so well in school if the same fully fledged dopamine machines existed when I was a kid.

At the same time, I can't imagine a full ban on cellphones being the reasonable course of action. There's probably a compromise in there somewhere.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

As an adult with strong ADHD, I concur. I lock up my phone and keep it far away when working because it's kryptonite for my already minimal ability to focus on the task at hand.

But cellphones became common-ish when I was in school, and the rule of the time was "it stays in your locker". People were wary of theft and would usually bring them in turned off so teachers wouldn't confiscate them, but it did the job of keeping phones out of hands in class.

I know parents want to have access to their kids 24/7, but that's such a new mindset and I can't imagine it does much good for kids' development, either.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Phones aren't the problem, applications are. No one ever complained about having Nokia 3310s in their pockets.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

you clearly went to a different school than I did in tne 1990s

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Bright colorful screens that mess up serotonin are also part of the problem.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

There's a lot of people here immediately jumping to the "cell phones bad!" conclusion.

Phones are a part of kids lives nowadays. Banning them in schools isn't going to help anyone. How are children supposed to learn to use technology safely and effectively if we just take it away from them instead? I don't want to imply that it is only a teachers job to teach kids about safe technology use, because it isn't, but kids spend 30+ hours a week at school. It is a large portion of their lives and what they learn in the classroom often ends up reflected in their lives outside of school.

I think everyone who jumps to the conclusion to ban cell phones in schools is missing the point. All it does is encourage kids to use their technology in unsupervised spaces instead. It doesn't teach them how to use it safely or effectively, and it doesn't prevent them from participating in cyber bullying. All it does is push issues such as that outside of the school where kids have arguably less resources and support systems to deal with it.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (14 children)

We can all agree that alcohol isn't bad by itself and that we can learn to use it safely (don't drink too much, knowing when we had enough etc..). And yet we keep away alcohol from children. Why? Because it is a well-known fact that children may not have the capability to limit themselves; they might very well become addicted and fall into it.

Why should it be any different for mobile phones? We know it can become an addiction. And we also know that children do not have the means to limit themselves because of their young age.

Deliberately letting a kid having a phone for an indefinite amount of time is being irresponsible. What would be responsible is only allowing to use the phone for a limited time.

Schools banning phone could be one way towards that. It would be a good way too because the kid would not be suffering from any social pressure from their peers as everyone would be concerned with the ban.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is going to be my hot take of the day.

Cars are very much part of our lives and we decided that there was a minimum age to own and operate them. I could potentially get behind a system where we don't let children below a certain age operate / own a phone.

It's illegal to smoke with a kid in your car, but we have no problem giving a 10 year old kid unfiltered internet 24/7 as a society.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

This is a hot take that I can get on board with. I think in order for this to happen we (as a society) will have to come to grips with the real damage device addiction can do to our lives. The harm is easy to find with second hand smoke and alcohol but we do a great job turning a blind eye to all the issues we're causing for ourselves by being stuck on our devices.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I don't strictly disagree, but the damage misusing a car can cause is a lot more obvious and quantifiable than a phone, so it is a much harder argument to make

That said, high school students do drive and they can't do so in the classroom, so we're rapidly approaching an apples and oranges argument with regards to how phones should specifically look inside of school.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Phones are a part of kids lives nowadays.

It has a time and place. I think the point here is that the time and place is not in class.

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[–] cyborganism 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In that case there should be some time dedicated to that topic.

Otherwise, they have all that technology in hand as soon as classes finish. The younger generations are all born with tablets and smartphones in their hands.

I'm really not worried about them learning how they work.

Heck, we had a PC at home and I learned how to use DOS as soon as I learned how to read just so I could play games.

I think you're understanding these kids.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Secondary teacher here.

Trying to remove phones from the classroom entirely is just reinforcing that phones are for entertainment. It is a tool and needs to be handled like a tool: we should be teaching responsible use, and limiting it from those who have proved they can't be responsible on a per-case basis.

When students use their phones responsibly, they can be powerful learning aids. And I have zero issues calling out individual students who refuse to use them responsibly and treating their actions like any other misdemeanor.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Thank you for wording this so tactfully. So many people fail to realize that a large portion of cell phone use is as a tool. As someone who has grown up with a phone, most of my use has been as a tool. People like to say "kids these days never talk to each other, everyone is always on their phones!" but my experience has been the opposite. Having my phone gives me and my friends something to talk about. We can pull up the video we're referencing in 10 seconds. We can look something up immediately if we aren't sure of it. We can look for places to go eat or activities to go do. We can easily research current events and find out what the actual facts are, instead of just going "I heard x" without anything to back it up.

All of this stems from the way we were taught to use technology. Our technology use in classrooms for research taught us how to look things up, how to find reputable sources, when it's appropriate to use our devices, and how to use them with others. Most schools (at least where I am) are now one-to-one, which means every student has a computer in every class. People are quick to ban phones, but then turn around and say computers are fine. This makes no sense to me. They can both be used in nearly identical ways. If we're removing phones from classrooms, then we better remove the computers too. And then we're going to have people complaining because "this generation doesn't know how to use a computer!" Well, guess what, it's because you said they shouldn't have them in the classroom.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

I think cellphones should be banned in classrooms and allowed between classes. I'm not sure why they should need to be banned during students' freetime. This is how it was when I was in high school during the very early years of smartphones and it worked out fine. If I wanted to listen to music while walking down the halls or during lunch, that was a really important coping mechanism for me with how dramatic high school can be. It also allowed me to keep in touch with my friends and meet them around the school. I think it's overly reactionary to do a blanket ban like that. I completely understand the need to ban them within classrooms. That's reasonable to me as classrooms should only be for learning.

[–] Whooping_Seal 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

At least when I was in secondary school teachers did not have to confiscate phones, reasonable usage of cell phones was permitted (or laptops for that matter) while unreasonable usage would first result in the instructor asking you to put your phone away and subsequently result in confiscation. Reasonable usage could be using a English-French dictionary online, or taking a photo of a white board. I think it also helped that the school wifi blocked social media and the building had horrendous reception due to the building style, and most VPNs would be blocked so it was difficult to circumvent anyways. I think a complete ban is unreasonable, students should learn how to use technology effectively to ameliorate their education while also learning when it is not appropriate to use it at all (e.g. when the teacher is lecturing).

Edit: I should add for primary school I feel like devices are significantly less useful, and only school owned devices should be used under supervision of staff if necessary (e.g. a computer lab, or a chromebook cart). I do not know how many students bring phones in that age group now, since when I went the most anyone had was an iPod usually except for the rare person with more.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I live in the USA, and phones are generally banned in schools here, although they're allowed to be used while class is not in session.

In some cases though, kids have become violent and attacked teachers who have tried taking their phone away.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Sounds like a fabulous idea.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Looks like a ban on smartphones would be more reasonable, while allowing certain kinds of old school phones (the kind for example Hasidic Jews use), to allow for emergency contingencies.

Schools have dress codes, and people adapt to those. Maybe we just need tech codes.

[–] Grennum 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is just silly. Just ban the phones.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Parents are saying they are a lifeline. So, not so fast.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

No it is not silly. You're silly.

:|

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Right? I survived just fine withiut a cell phone until partway through high school. If there was an emergency, my parents would just call the school.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I grew up without a cell phone until like 3rd~4th year in university, cause I am old. (no, I don't even have a message box thing that ask you to call a number back.)

But, depending on the kid's age and situation, I think a phone is necessary. It allows you to record conversation, take photo/video. It's a very powerful tool to deter bullying attempts if you teach the kid how to use it. (as you can set back up to cloud asap with data plans, even if the bully tried to take away phone the video is already recorded, you can even setup a live streaming app so it streams right away and archive on the cloud.)

The school wants to ban cause they don't want to deal with the confrontations or why the teaching isn't attracting the kids' attention.

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