this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2023
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I'm not a fan of the "war" between Android and Apple when it comes to SMS/texting. The rest of the world doesn't use SMS/RCS/iMessage as much as WhatsApp and the like, so the US is pretty much lagging behind everyone else on this anyway.

That being said, I have to admit Android did a good job with this!

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

The rest of the world doesn’t use SMS/RCS/iMessage as much as WhatsApp and the like

SMSes use a standard available to any app. WhatsApp is controlled by a single company.

If you were arguing that XMPP or something like that should be used instead of SMS, okay, that's one thing, but I have a hard time favoring a walled garden.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Ok, I'm gonna get into this.

2005: Google Talk released.
2013: Google Hangouts released.
2015: Google announces Google Talk shutting down, encourages people to move to Hangouts.
2016: Despite Hangouts being a one stop shop for SMS and Chat, Google discourages people from using it for SMS, asking people to use the Google Messages app instead.
2016: Google Allo released.
2016: RCS adoption begins.
2017: Google Talk shuts down.
2017: Google Chat released.
2017: Hangouts is re-targeted for business and moves to some sort of consumer freemium model?
~2018(?): YouTube Chat released, a 1:1 messaging system inside of YouTube. No idea when it was discontinued but it didn't last long.
2019: Google Allo discontinued.
2022: Whatever was left of Hangouts is discontinued.
2023: RCS through Google Messenger is now default instead of SMS and group messages are finally encrypted.

Compare this to:
2011: iMessage released. As far as I can tell, it's been e2e encrypted since at least 2012 and potentially since release.

Google, you have no fucking leg to stand on. Get your shit together. If you had had a coherent messaging strategy, maybe Apple would have been amenable to working with you, but what incentive do they have right now? For all anyone knows, you'll drop RCS by 2026 in favor of moving everyone to Google Heythere, the new ridiculous app for messaging!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

Your comment is disingenuous.

Adding the 2018 YouTube Chat isn't fair. Google has products that allow communicating between users. It was never meant to be any replacement for SMS, it was simply a chat system within YouTube. You know, the same YouTube that has had DM's since day 1?

You also said in 2016 Google encourages people to use the Google Messages app. The same app being used today.

Google also launched other apps around the same time. Apps that were in development for a while. Then they shut them down, to focus all of the features/time into Google Messages.

You're also adding very specific apps that Google never intended to make into an SMS app. Like Google Chat or Hangouts Rebrand.

Your timeline is disingenuous. Essentially from 2016 - NOW Google has been working on making Google Messages the one stop shop. Only 5 years less than Apple has been making iMessage.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Samsung supported RCS natively in their messaging apps since about 2013, and my carrier released their own RCS+SMS messaging app around that time to bridge the gap for non-samsung android users

Google was pretty late to the RCS boat lol

[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago

Can some custom rom group do the same type of video but about Google not allowing third party sms apps to use RCS?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would like to use it but no one else does

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Signal removed SMS integration, making adoption less likely.

When I could install Signal on my parents phones, and they could SMS and Signal message in the same app, it was great. Especially since any contacts that happened to have Signal, it just worked. My parents didn't have to do anything.

After Signal removed SMS, my parents just open up Google Messages and message everyone from there. They don't want to juggle two apps. They also don't really understand it. They just go back to the "main menu", select their friends name, and type. Signal shot themselves in the foot.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago

How about we adopt open standards

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago

Here's the thing - the rest of us do use SMS, we just weren't gullible enough to fall for Apple's bullshit about text bubble colours

That's fuckin infantile πŸ˜‚

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

WhatsApp certainly dominates Europe but I'd love to see a universal standard to replace SMS. The less messaging apps the better. WhatsApp is owned by Meta after all...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago

The rest of the world doesn’t use SMS/RCS/iMessage as much as WhatsApp and the like, so the US is pretty much lagging behind everyone else on this anyway.

Not sure I want to end up with Facebook controlling my messaging...

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Lol this is funny. I wouldn't really call it much of a war, it's Apple holding back easily implemented features to cater to elitism. Would platforms like WhatsApp have taken over so heavily if basic texting was actually good enough?

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Google put more thought into this commercial than they did into their actual messaging strategy and it shows.

They should ask MS how well that Scroogle campaign worked out for them a few years back.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

War?

Oh, right, that wrist cutting thing Apple users do in that one single continent I never visited. That. Right. They do need the help.

Good for them.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

SamsungUS joining in.

I guess the iPhone sales numbers in the US are keeping them awake. I personally think Apple will only bend if they are forced somehow by the US government, like the way EU did with type-C.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

So do people in the US chiefly send messages via SMS rather than WhatsApp and others like it? That's so bizarre to me haha.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It is less that people use SMS and more that people just don't use WhatsApp. I have a mix of group chats, including some with SMS and Facebook Chat. However, no one uses Whatsapp.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Yeah I use Facebook Messenger and Snapchat to keep up with friends and RCS/SMS mostly for family. Never used WhatsApp before though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I would say that was the case in the UK generally about 5 years ago. But WhatsApp increasingly took over as the norm because it was clean, quick, relatively well encrypted, and made sending gifs and stickers easy and fun for the average user. Plus, the youth aren't only wedded to iPhones unlike the US increasingly.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (7 children)

The rest of the world doesn't use SMS? This is new to me.

Why shouldn't we? They're free, they work everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

they're free

They were not always free, and when they were, they were up to a limit. Yes the limit was something absurd, but surprisingly, some people did hit them.

That's why as soon as phones had easy access to the web and enough bandwidth to last a month, people started treating SMS like a last resort, and I have not met a single culture on Earth that didn't think this way in the transition period up to when what you said became universally true.

Plus... People don't want to message only their "contacts", nor want their phone address book filled with trash. Mindblowing, know, who would have thought (other than US apple users????). Facebook's Messenger was one of the earliest to give that to the wide public and it got heavily adopted. But people moved on from even that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They're not "free", many places still charge per SMS. Even if your country doesn't, you NEED an SMS plan, which costs more than a basic data-only plan. SMS is extremely unsecure. They don't work "everywhere", especially if you're travelling, and your country charges extreme fees to receive SMS out of country (for reference, Canadian carriers charge $15/day to use your phone outside Canada. That's one expensive ass text..).

That being said, I think it's crazy that a large portion of Europe has adopted WhatsApp. I wouldn't touch that Meta garbage with a 100 kilometre pole.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

They are not free here but since like no one other than my grandma uses them it's not really important.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

They're limited as hell and buggy. The thing that most bothers me is the character limit and then your device sends out multiple SMSs, other devices may not understand that and instead of receiving one message you receive multiple broken ones.

Accents, anything not in the English alphabet: Γ‘ Γ€ ā Δ… Γ© Γͺ and so on, good luck with those.

Attaching media is a nightmare, basically the entire MMS protocol is broken.

You're relying on your carrier and your recipients carriers.

International messaging is also completely broken for the reason above. You can forget any media in that case too.

Geez I don't know if I should continue. Did you know SMS was not a feature planned in phones originally but rather it takes advantage of a bug that was never fixed?

In Brazil where I'm originally from people stopped using SMS altogether as soon as the first iPhone got in the market. Android followed shortly after. Viber was the popular choice back then, now WhatsApp is the standard.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I def agree that there needs to be major interoperability improvements between platforms. Though I do not want to be locked into using Google Messages to get RCS. I wish they'd open their API to other apps and even more so allow self-hosting your own RCS server but I don't foresee the latter ever happening.

Ya there's Matrix and whatnot which I use with some people, but most everyone just wants what works by default. I like to tinker and have options, but most people don't.

Till then, I'll enjoy postage stamp resolution videos from my Apple friends /s

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