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Beehaw admins: there are only four of us moderating everything
Community: so ask people to be ~~admins~~ mods
Beehaw admins: i can't understand a goddamn word you're saying
Edit: meant to say mods not admins
this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2023
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MODERATORS
"Only 4 of us moderating"
"Refuses to add mods meanwhile accepting 1000s of applications to join and building said community in a federated space where anyone outside their instance can participate"
Yep, definitely well planned out by those folks hahaha.
It doesn’t make sense for moderators to have full admin access. Lemmy allows multiple moderators to a work a community, and BeeHaw just needs to do that.
Yeah that was my mistake, I meant to say mods, not admins
I personally find beehaw's moderation weird, I get that you're trying to create a safe and regulated space, but you simple can't do that with 4 mods on the entire instance. I do think that their decision to jump to defederation is a result of these 4 people being overworked and simply not having the time to rationally evaluate the situation.
if they want to continue like this they'll have to evaluate on whether to appoint proper mods to their communities or just decide to change their stance on "safe" content.
For reference to anyone who doesn't know, Beehaw blocks around 400 instances. I'm assuming a lot of them are troublesome stuff (like some illegal shit), I'm fine with those blocks. But I personally got confused by them banning Lemmy World, Shitjustworks, and the small instances that have bot accounts. For the latter it seems to just be private instances where bots signed up cus of open sign ups. Like it doesn't seem the owners of those mall instances wanted the bots. The bots just signed up and the owners didn't realize. Also, from my understanding, from what I read in some comments here, they even defederated from a place that doesn't federate (i.e. it was meaningless to block). I saw this in comments about the Lemmyworld defederation. The site seems to be hexbear, which from what I can see at a glance seems to be a refugee site for the previous r/ChapoTrapHouse subreddit, which no longer exists on reddit. Idk what the culture is on that site, but I find it weird to ban a place that doesn't even federate.
Most of Beehaw's blocks are "generic ActivityPub assholes", which, before the Reddit migration, was really just the worst of the worst of Mastodon, Pleroma, Soapbox, and Miss/Calc/???Key instances, with the occasional PeerTube thrown in.
They likely just imported one of the common blocklists and moved on with their lives, which really should be "how to secure your community 101" but most Lemmy admins haven't seem to have gotten the memo yet.
I'm patiently waiting for the day those assholes realize most of Lemmy is open ground for them to shit in, boy that's gonna be a fun few days.
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Honestly, I respect their decision but at the same time I wonder why they didn't create a standalone unfederated from the get go.
If you want to keep the community small and tightly nit it's just not compatible with the federation system. Now people got invested in some beehaw communities only to end up disconnected from them.
Still, it's not like there is a guide for this. We are all learning how to make the federation work. I hope we can keep it civil toward instances that choose to defederate.
We are all invested in the same thing: Making Lemmy successful.
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There doesn’t seem to be many moderation tools for people who don’t own the instance
Yet. Sync for Lemmy should be coming out in 4~ weeks and Memmy is heavily inspired by Apollo and is being developed fast.
Though I wouldn't expect mod tools in their first release.
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Even if you own an instance, the tools are non-existent.
Some basics things that should be present but aren't:
- A user directory for search and deletion
- Possibility to block communities for your whole instance
- Basic statistics. Both on the community and instance level
- Possibility to mute a user without banning them
- Allow creating a community but only after admin approval (right now it's free for all or admin only)
- Easy access to server logs without having to dig directly inside the hosting server
- Importing block/allow lists for federations using a file or url
- Adding an administrator from the server admin UI
The API is also lacking in a way that some of those things are not possible without deploying your own API talking directly with the postgress database.
For example, if you wanted to see upvote/downvotes for each individual users, the data to calcultate it is in the database but the Lemmy API doesn't provide that functionality.
While Lemmy is great as a platform, the management side of is glueing everything together just enough to not let it implode.
My team and I are planning to start working on an AutoMod bot in the near future. It's going to be built with our custom instance in mind, but the code will he open source for everyone to use.
okay, let's talk turkey. let's define some requirements for the mod tools, and then we can start talking about how to satisfy those requirements.
I can code, but I've never been a moderator. What kind of mod tools do you want?
EDIT: More discussion about mod tools: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3281
Fricking flairs, they're very important in the communities that I'm moderating. With an ability to set multiple flairs at once because on reddit you can set only one which sucks because some posts can fit criteria to get 2 or more flairs.
Here's a relevant GH issue: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/317
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Has this ever happened? From what I can tell asking people to fix their issues is the first step, and defederation only happens when they can't/won't fix them yet
Not sure if there's any lore behind it but I've also seen this. The beehaw admins seem to have an habit of making problems go away by pressing the magic button.
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Yea this is really important, and also we need a way to moderate the moderators so we don't end up with the "super" mods we saw on Reddit...
Just contacting admins of your instance would do, they have the ability to remove and appoint new mods.
this is called "meta-moderation" and is a good idea @[email protected] :) it's part of the Santa Clara Principles of transparent moderation (https://santaclaraprinciples.org/)
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Who defederated now?
Nobody de-federated. People saw that there was a the_Donald community on sh.itjust.works + a lot of people from said server defending it ("just ignore it bro"). That triggered probably bad memories ala spez defending t_D because of "VaLuABlE DiSCuSsIoN", while they brigaded and harrased countless people during their time on Reddit. Some people got a little bit carried away and demanded de-federation and a couple of trolls throw gazoline in the fire.
A community does not have a right to exist on a certain person's server. They should delete The_Donald and move on.
The community got deleted by the admin.
Based.
It got deleted quite quickly. By the time I saw the local community post about it it was already gone.
Nobody de-federated
Beehaw defederated sh.itjust.works and I think Lemmy.world
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This is one of the personal fears I have about society's where 'the mob' decides. Most people haven't had their fate decided by a mob before and so might not know what this means or how it pans out most of the time.
I believe it is imperative that we have something in place to avoid mob actions - not a central authority per say but possibly a collective code we all believe in and abide by. We could perhaps establish what is (un)acceptable on a fediversal (universal) scale and what is (un)acceptable on a local instances (instances decide this themselves obv.)
In the future we might need Lemmy/ActivityPub to be able to define posts/accounts/communities that are accessible across the Fediverse and those that are only accessible to users of that instance.
Hence we wouldn't have the problem where for instance: members of one instance think pictures of furries is not NSFW content but members from other instances think it is
I’ll never understand this moral handwringing about mob rule.
No one is burning witches. There’s no value to having a bunch of neo-nazi perspectives. They’re not useful, productive or worth platforming.
This. No fucking nazis that should be banned automatically whenever they try to start any community.
Fuckers can stay on true social or whatever the hell trump calls his platform and stay away from Lemmy.
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See this post of mine which was prompted by a mastodon dev reviewing moderation tools on lemmy and kbin:
I had a conversation with the reviewer, and my impression was that headway could be made without too much difficulty.
If anyone’s keen, and willing to work in rust or Typescript, there’s probably work you could be doing right now to make better moderation tools.
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An iOS app would be wonderful. It's the only thing stopping me from being a full-time Lemmy user right now.
There is one called Mlem. You can find it and other apps on the website: https://join-lemmy.org/apps
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don't worry, they're coming. a bunch of bigger third party app Devs have said they will make an app for Lemmy, and that will include iOS apps as well I'm sure. it's just a matter of time.
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We need the glitches fixed or people won't migrate. Such as:
-Clicking on a post and instead a sports bot comes up
-Random auto scrolling
-Upvote issues on some mobile browsers
-Sometimes clicking on a post or picture on mobile doesn't bring it up properly
Random auto scrolling
Do you mean the new post that used to popped to the top of the page and it made scroll issues? Because I think it was fixed at v0.18
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All of the memes and threads I've seen complaining about this are from the instances that are being defederated, rather than from within Beehaw itself. In fact if you go and read the threads where they discuss these changes it seems the majority of the Beehaw users are okay with this.
Reddit admins made a unilateral change that the majority didn't like and now we're all here on Lemmy, why is everyone suddenly acting like Lemmy instances are any different?
Defed is the new Ban Hammer
Except instead of banning people for no reason you ban entire servers for no reason
Think of it as banning an entire server until they clean up that server.
Until there are tools to more granularly ban specific comminities or users, it’s the only thing you can do if you don’t want nazis.
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What was Elmo supposed to have been doing in the innocent interpretation of this image? I swear they had to have known.
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A lot of the requests I've seen is people trying to create another echo chamber
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