the fact that lobbying, which literally is just bribing the government, is somehow legal all over the world is crazy to me.
this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2025
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They are literally not the same. Bribing is when you try to give something in exchange for voting/law making etc. Lobbying is convincing why prioritising is important. These can be selfish reasons, like in this case. However, lobbying may also be done for noble causes by a wide range of NGOs. Prohibiting lobbying is limiting the opportunity for all kinds of actors to argue their cause.
The effect is very similar though. Ultimately, lobbying is most beneficial for interests that are entrenched and/or extremely wealthy. The only difference is the way that they approach it. Bribery is a very narrow means to supporting your cause, but lobbying is much more vague and difficult to define.
I agree that both their objective lies in changing regulation. Doesn't mean that they are the same, however. Which OP stated. And I wouldn't say it is the only difference, rather the difference between the two.
how is giving them millions of dollars "convincing why prioritising is important"
If there is proof that they have given millions of dollars, this will go to court, as that is illegal. Lobbying is not bribing as I pointed out in my initial reply. Lots of different groups and organisations use lobbying to make their concerns heard. Just because this is a case we don't like, does not mean lobbying has no purpose.
Yeah Helmut Kohl never went to court and never revealed how he ended up with suit cases full of cash that enabled him and his party to rule for 16 fucking years. Sure bud lobbying is fine because they always follow the laws.
They are literally not the same. Lobbying is when you try to convince someone and influence their voting/law making etc. Bribing is paying to set the prioritising and define what is important. However, bribing may also be done for noble causes, prohibiting bribes is limiting the opportunity for all kinds of actors to ensure their cause isn't deprioritized in a harmful way.
They're literally the same, we just legalized using money to set the agenda and made a new word for it.
imagine if they simply spent that lobbying money on research and development!
They know they can't compete with China at this point, so they'd prefer to flip the table.
we can't compete with China, therefore you'll all die.
They know they can't compete at the new game, so want to play the old game.
Trouble is, the new game already started.
The issue is that they totally can compete in the new game. People who have put electric drivetrains in older originally combustion cars have been able to make amazing vehicles. If a European company started going back to their roots of good driving, lighter, well built cars I think they would sell. If they were able to have a minimal amount of computers on top of that it would be awesome.
If car companies can't adapt and innovate in 10 fucking years then they deserve to go under.
They flat-out refused to adapt. They said "We don't fear competition, we build the most efficient ICE in the world" and thought they could keep selling their obsolete technology indefinitely.
"NO one wants electric cars!"
"I want one!"
"There is no demand!"
"Man China builds really nice electric cars I wish I could buy one"
"Foreign cars are shit and aren't as good as ours"
"Wow those foreign cars got such new things! I wish I could have them in my car. Or just the bog standard stuff! I get all this extra crap I dont want and none of the good stuff"
"Our cars have subscription costs, our customers love that!"
"Fuck I wish I had an electric car the maintenance is so low"
"You got to by expensive parts from us. We hate you"
Where I live older cars can't enter the city center. In a couple of years the ban will be expanded to all ICE cars. Many other cities are introducing same rules. This fight is pointless. Even if EU will not ban all ICE cars local jurisdiction will still fight them. On top of that last ICE cars manufactured in 2035 will still be on the roads until, what?, 2050? Those companies are basically lobbying for the right to complete against cheap electric cars from China with big batteries and fast charging. Good luck with that.
I'm listening to a podcast about the French Revolution, and man this must be what it felt like watching all those entrenched interests and archaic institutions fight for their stupid outdated privileges in the face of imminent collapse.
The VDA now wants to shift from a full ban to a 90 percent CO2 reduction target for new vehicles by 2035. That means 10 percent of vehicles sold could be powered by internal combustion engines.
Here they go again. First it's 90%. If that's approved, they move to lobbying for 80%, 70%, ... We've seen that move before.
Not that it matters, China can undercut them on price if they need to. German manufacturers have been cheapening their brand for increased profits, so that premium reputation matters less and less. Meanwhile cost of living isn't going down.
Not that it matters, China can undercut them on price if they need to.
Not if they're tariffed to hell and back.
Yea not going to happen. The EU isn't retarded.
What news coming out of the EU convinces you it isn't retarded? Because it's been basically a continuous stream of retardation only occasionally interrupted by sound policy.
Fuck them.