this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2023
110 points (96.6% liked)

World News

39142 readers
2707 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The mercenary Wagner group has sensationally claimed Russia has fired a missile at its camps, just after its founder bashed Putin's war on Ukraine.

top 29 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

Incorrect title, he has declared they're marching (or planning to) march against Shoigu and oust him from the MoD.

In his statement he specifically states that he thinks the MoD has also misled the President. So his argument is that he is he's trying to help Russia and Putin by getting rid of Shoigu.

FSB has declared a criminal investigation on charges of inciting a coup, and Rosguardia has been put on high alert. Medvedev has stated "all necessary precaution measures have started".

Will be interesting to see what happens next.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I have a hard time believing this, but if Wagner/Prigozhin goes rouge, at the moment when Ukraine have started their counteroffensive, that could have massive consequences for Russia. I wonder whether Ukraine would allow them to "go free" if they decide to switch sides en masse?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would be happy to see every Russian in Ukraine turn a nice shade of rouge.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I meant what I said! If Prigozhin goes rouge his new appearance could woo the people and benefit him massively in the Russian presidential election, potentially causing a major upset and leading to the end of Putins rain.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Would that be Putin's ... purple rain?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

leading to the end of Putins rain.

And the beginning of Putin's sun?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think you meant "The beginning of Putins Son", which is secretly Prigozhin.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is how conspiracies are born.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

They're actually birthing new conscripts? That's fucked up!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Twist! His mother? Olena Zelenskyy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think you meant rogue, not rouge. "Rouge" is the French word for "red".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, in that case I don't understand what you said. I mean, red is a nice color to wear if you dare to wear it, but I don't know how it could help Prigozhin in any way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

red is a nice color to wear if you dare to wear it

Exactly!

his new appearance could woo the people and benefit him massively in the Russian presidential election, potentially causing a major upset and leading to the end of Putins rain.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Rosguardia has hundreds of thousands of internal soldiers. Assuming their allegiance is to the MoD (and at this point there is no way of knowing), I don't see how Prigozhin could successfully stage the ousting.

If he was really trying to help the Ukrainians the most effective decision would probably be to attack the rear of the Russian lines to allow Ukrainian forces to come through. Wagner units have been off the front for about a month so I don't think it really has any effect on Ukraines ability to break through the lines without the above scenario happening, but nothing Prigozhin has said leads me to think he'd help Ukraine, as he also stated he plans to return to the Frontlines to help defend the motherland against the west after ousting Shoigu.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I definitely think Prigozhins "easiest" way to power would be to help the Ukrainians break through and encircle a large portion of the Russian army.

Rosguardia has hundreds of thousands of internal soldiers.

I may be very wrong, but I think that such a large proportion of the Russian armed forces and material are in Ukraine now, that if they were to be encircled and lose decisively (not that I think this is immediately likely) the Rosguardia would have a hard time. It doesn't help to have hundreds of thousands of soldiers if you don't have any heavy equipment, communication systems or command structure. Additionally, Prigozhin appears to be in good favour among quite a few Russians, so I wouldn't bet against some of them joining him if he were to try something.

But given what you're saying, the above seems like a pipe dream ^but-I-want-to-dream-that-this-can-end-suddenly-and-quickly.^

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I don’t know if it’s that simple a calculation. The article states that Wagner commands upwards of 50,000 troops that have just spent months getting battle hardened. Plus who can say how well equipped the internal troops are when everything has been shipped to the front.

Personally though I think Prigozhim is acting on Purtin’s orders and has created a nice scapegoat for him in the leadership of the Russian military.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Even if Wagner just leaves and takes it's troops back to Africa, it will be a major loss for Russia.

There's no way Ukraine would ever let them switch sides though. Maybe the Free Russia Legion would work with them to carve out some territory for themselves in Russia, but the only think Ukraine would allow them to do is surrender for jail time.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don't ever believe anything Prigozhin says.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It's honestly so hard to tell what's happening. Is Prigozin acting in cahoots with Putin to solidify power? Is he being helped by the CIA to institute a coup? Is he just gone nutters and going rogue? Is this just another extreme version of political theatre from him? There are suggestions he's already started walking back some of the comments. Time will tell.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That's one hell of a headline.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

100% political theatre. Prigozhin is a media whore and clown.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Go get em boys

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Non pay walled link

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Seems very likely he’s lying about the progress of this “march.” Main question is “how much is he lying?”

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

God I hope this ends up as a big shit show for the Russians.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

What do you mean "ends up"? lol

[–] CrazyEyesEddie 0 points 1 year ago

Lots of news reports about this. I mean, there would be, given it plays to the west’s wish for problems within Russia.

Not sure if it’s posturing on Prigozhin’s part or an actual revolt against the Russian military. Time will tell.