this post was submitted on 12 May 2025
50 points (91.7% liked)

Europe

5902 readers
869 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in [email protected]. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
  10. Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.

(This list may get expanded as necessary.)

Posts that link to the following sources will be removed

Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media. Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com

(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)

Ban lengths, etc.

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the primary mod account @[email protected]

founded 10 months ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
50
Amnesty International slams Lithuania’s ‘retrograde move’ to exit landmine ban treaty (www.lrt.lt)
submitted 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
16 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

“Today’s decision to leave the Anti-Personnel Mine Ban Convention is a retrograde move that will only further weaken the global consensus aimed at minimising civilian harm during armed conflict,” said Esther Major, Amnesty International’s deputy director for research in Europe.

“We call on the Lithuanian government to reverse this decision that could put civilian lives at risk,” she said, adding that anti-personnel mines have devastating effects on civilians.

top 16 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 days ago

In a recent interview, the Lithuanian Minister of National Defense Dovilė Šakalienė said:

While for some it may seem cruel [to exit the landmine ban treaty], for me it is a necessity. Because we are going to have mines on our territory, but they will either be Russian mines, where we won’t know where they are and they will be in large quantities and may kill a lot of our citizens. Or it will be our own mines where we will know where they are placed, and they do have a very good deterrence effect on Russian soldiers ... We have to imagine the worst-case scenario for us to be prepared. This is not a mistake that can be corrected. This is not a possibility to get an extended deadline.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Lithuania is threatened by its much larger neighbour. The commitment of many of Lithuania's allies can be questionable. Lithuania should, in my opinion, have access to any and all tools it believes necessary to deter an attack and eventually defend against an attack. Amnesty and their lopsided idealism can go take a long look at the mirror and ask themselves why liberal democracies have been on the back foot for a decade.

[–] Tar_alcaran 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I'm a big fan of Amesty, but their point is stupid. Look how much Ukrainians have suffered at the hands of Russia. Russia is literally comitting genocide right fucking now, kidnapping children and forcefully displacing adults and moving Russians into the occupied territory.

Now, landmines are bad, true. But genocide is a whole lot fucking worse. You can remove landmines, and the ones you miss will not kill tens of thousands of people every year.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Why make up this false dichotomy of "either landmines or genocide"?

[–] Tar_alcaran 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Its not a total dichotomy, but one absolutely contributes to not having the other.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I'm still not really sure about how I feel about this, but one thing that is obvious is that landmines aren't the only way to prevent Russia from crossing into Lithuania. We shouldn't act as if they have no choice at all. If Russia never ends up invading Lithuania then this will only harm Lithuanians, either people who step on it by accident or while trying to remove them. It has been proven far and wide these things kill long after a conflict has been resolved.

[–] Tar_alcaran 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

If Russia never ends up invading Lithuania then this will only harm Lithuanians, either people who step on it by accident or while trying to remove them

Wait, I think there's a big disconnect here. Nobody is suggesting they scatter a million landmines around Vilnius, or even emplacing them along the border right now. You can have landmines ready, but not place them until you notice troop buildups. You can even pre-place basic fences to keep civilians out of the zones you plan to use, it still works.

The time to place landmines is when you're (about to be) at war. Not just for humanitarian reasons, landmines don't actually work reliably forever.

It has been proven far and wide these things kill long after a conflict has been resolved.

And, very harshly, you can weigh those deaths against immediate deaths when you're at war. Against an enemy that has repeatedly demonstrated that losing a war will mean you stop existing as a people, the equation becomes a lot less complex.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

Fair point, nukes also deter if you don't use them. But the point that still stands is that if you spend your money on mines you can't spend it on other things. I don't know enough about warfare to know how to spend money wisely, but I do hope Lithuanian government takes the downsides of mines into consideration enough.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

The one thing I truly appreciate is that they have chosen to remain neutral, not picking a good or bad side but calling out everyone's bad behaviour. They decided to be one of the forces in the balance of powers. If you're the good guy, and do to the bad guy what the bad guy does to you, you're still doing a bad thing and deserve to be called out upon. Lithuania is free to decide on what they want to do, Amnesty's judgement doesn't have legal power.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

Don't worry you've got the Bundeswehr on site, now. The Bundeswehr specialises in stalling the enemy at the border until an army arriv.... wait.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Amnesty and their lopsided idealism can go take a long look at the mirror and ask themselves why liberal democracies have been on the back foot for a decade.

Uh... Because they're all ran by pussies and downright collaborators?

[–] Tar_alcaran 6 points 5 days ago

The great weakness of a true democracy is that it allows skilled, well-intentioned politicians and corrupt assholes to run just as easily. And the corrupt assholes tend to be better funded.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago

There's never been a consensus to ban landmines, just idealism.

Long story short the ban they formulated went too far: It also outlaws anti-personnel mines which deactivate themselves after some time. So you either sign up and lose access to a very useful tool that does spare civilians, or you don't sign up and then there's basically no limitations.

The reason the Geneva convention has such wide acceptance is because it isn't idealistic -- it doesn't try to outlaw cruelty. It outlaws pointless and unnecessary cruelty, cruelty for cruelty's sake instead of military objectives. The landmine treaty was not written with that kind of attitude so of course, if states decide that they really need landmines to e.g. secure their borders, then they will leave it, or never sign it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago (2 children)

more slamming!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago 
It's real early morning
No-one is awake
I'm back at my cliff
Still throwing things off
I listen to the sounds they make
On their way down
I follow with my eyes 'til they crash
Imagine what my body would sound like
Slamming against those rocks
When it lands
Will my eyes
Be closed or open?
[–] weariedfae 1 points 5 days ago

🎵 I like to slam the jam. 🎵