this post was submitted on 11 Feb 2025
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Reluctant Detransition (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 day ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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I’m curious how other folks have managed life after detransition. Due to mental health stuff (ended up in “grippysock jail” over half a dozen times) and later losing health insurance, I detransitioned some years ago. Semi-recently I went back on hormones, got an orchiectomy (which eased bottom dysphoria considerably), and now find myself stuck somewhere in the middle. I present as male exclusively.

I get that some people may wish to perform gender along the lines of what I’m describing, and that’s totally valid but it is not the case for me. I find the current state of affairs incredibly frustrating: I would like to be perceived as a woman. Or at least part of me does - another part doesn’t care and is waiting until I can become an hero and end the whole sordid business. In either case, presenting as female poses significant challenges, and I’m too depressed and discouraged to even try to surmount them. Even when I was more functional and had the pecuniary advantage of an allowance, it was very clear that no matter how well I honed the art of “presenting” as female, I would probably never pass.

So, to restate the question, how do people deal with the fact that (as those in some quarters of the internet put it) “you will never be a real girl”?

(and incidentally, should anyone be concerned, I'm safe and currently under psychiatric care)

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Not a detransitioner specifically, but I am stuck in the closet for the forseeable future, so we might have some things in common 🥲

While I am not exactly a shining example of happiness and success, I have at least managed not to die by my own hand so far, which is not nothing, I guess.

There are basically two things that keep me going:

  1. As long as I'm still here, I can fight.

The systems that keep me in the closet do not just oppress me, they oppress most of the world. Which means that there will always be people to fight alongside. Even if trans liberation isn't their direct goal. Even if I have to hide my transness from them.

I may never become who I'm meant to be. But that doesn't mean there aren't still things worth doing. Everything counts.

  1. I still have hope.

Consider that people during the Cold War lived in very justified fear of global nuclear armageddon. If I had lived through those times, I would never have believed that despite decades of fingers hovering over self-destruct buttons, the world would still survive. And yet, here we are.

I don't know how, but maybe we'll survive this apocalypse. Maybe someday it'll be safe for me to transition. I intend to stick around to find out.

Good luck, and I wish you the best, fellow traveller. I've written on a similar note in another thread, maybe you'll find it helpful: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/21727800/12811429

[–] [email protected] 20 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

Do you think you'd have to pass to feel happy presenting. Or would you feel happy having people accept you as a woman who happens to be trans?

That latter part may be very difficult (or hopefully not) depending on where you live and your family/friends.

You don't have to pass to be, or to be accepted as a "real" or "valid" girl.

Not to hand wave your feelings away. I'm sure you've thought this before. Personally I don't mind not passing so long as people respect me as a woman.

Then again that might change once I'm out of the closet...

[–] [email protected] 9 points 19 hours ago

Or would you feel happy having people accept you as a woman who happens to be trans?

I live in what's nominally a very liberal area but in my experience from when I first transitioned any "acceptance" felt either performative (e.g. "I'm such a good person for playing along with your delusion") or coerced (e.g. "I have to respect your ""gender identity"" or I might get fired").

But I guess the core of it is that I don't see myself as valid. I'm not a girl because I'm not a girl. I certainly should have been born a girl, and I wish I was a girl, but if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

Gender as dictated by society is fake and that is how we deal with it. The whole point of transitioning is to be yourself, not to live up to someone else's ideas or ideals of what you 'should' be.

The idea of 'passing' or acting in a specific way is not only unfairly limiting but also dangerous for ourselves and others.

Heck there are many cis women that don't 'pass'.

We understand your frustration but it should be aimed squarely at the system and colonial expectations which is what has always attempted to make the beautiful range of possibilities of what a person or many persons can be into a boring grey lump.

Be more, be you, protest the system, fight back, especially with others, push for change. Do what you need to do in order to if not be happy then content.

Edit: Also there's no such thing as a 'real girl' these people completely don't understand science, philosophy, history or anything else we have brought up here. They are dull, boring people who have sad lives and can only feel better by putting others down, ignore and block them, report them if you think it'll do good too.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

The idea of ‘passing’ or acting in a specific way is not only unfairly limiting but also dangerous for ourselves and others.

I'm not concerned about looking a certain way as much as, if this makes any sense, being in communion with the eternal essence of womanhood, the platonic form, if you will. I feel severed from this, like I was damned to be a male; all that's left is this desperate longing. Dressing "as a woman", or bullying people into pretending I'm a woman can't begin to satisfy it.

there’s no such thing as a ‘real girl’

I guess we (might?) differ in that I believe there is some sort of "absolute" womanhood (and it presents in infinitely many ways); I just feel disconnected from it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

Ended up writing way more than I intended, so I'm editing this to add this introduction at the start. From the details of your post and comments, I'm not sure if you want to hear exclusively from people who have detransitioned, or if perspectives from people who are still transitioning are also welcome. I have not detransitioned, so if it's the former, just ignore my ramblings. 😅

I remember having feelings along these lines really early in transition, during the first few chaotic months after coming out of repression. At the time I was concerned about what it means to be a woman, how a woman is supposed to think about things and look at things, feel about things, etc., and how I was supposed to realign my habits and outlook to match that hypothetical ideal.

Ultimately, what I have come to understand and internalize (probably still ongoing, but I've come far) is that I've always been a woman, so the way a woman thinks and feels is the way I've always thought and felt, I just didn't know it. There's no need to change anything inherent to us - we had already arrived before we started. For me, what needed changing was to to try to unpack the various learned behaviors that gradually replaced and buried my intuitions and impulses, and unlearn them to see where I end up. Essentially, just to be more spontaneous/genuine, and less inhibited. Still a work in progress, but it's getting better all the time.

I'm not sure if that fits your situation, but it's what came to mind when you described feeling disconnected from "absolute" womanhood. I'm increasingly convinced that the very idea of some kind of absolute or canonical vision of womanhood is inherently sexist and oppressively dogmatic. As you yourself pointed out, it presents in infinitely many ways, so how can it be absolute?

If these musings seem relevant to you, I highly recommend this post: https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/jubilee That was one of the most helpful articles I've come across to help shift my understanding of and thinking about gender in general, and helped me get to my current mindset.

Bringing all this back to your original question of how I deal with the fact that I "will never be a real girl” - I essentially reject the premise of the question. To the extent that the concept of a "real girl" even exists, I already am one, and always have been. For me, the only practical questions along those lines are how I deal with not passing, or with not achieving my aesthetic preferences. Not sure if those interpretations of the question are interesting for you or not, so I'll answer them in brief.

On not passing: Passing isn't really important to me. I'm fortunate to live in an area where I don't feel like my safety is threatened by being visibly trans. If that changes, I'd probably deal with it by moving somewhere else, where people are less dickish.

On not being able to look how I'd prefer: This one is a downer, for sure. It doesn't really affect whether or not I'd transition, though. Even if I'm not pretty, I'm still so much happier transitioning than not that it just doesn't matter in terms of decision-making. And as a bonus, I'm given to understand that feeling down over body image problems puts you in the same boat as the vast majority of women in the world (cis or not), so if anything, that should get you closer to that "absolute" ideal of womanhood anyway. I basically deal with this from both ends: by gradually making changes to get closer to where I'd like to be, and by gradually working on mental health to be less concerned about it. Even if there are limits to how far I can go in both directions, I still feel a lot better for continuously making the attempt.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 14 minutes ago* (last edited 12 minutes ago)

I remember having feelings along these lines really early in transition, during the first few chaotic months after coming out of repression.

I suppose I may still be repressed, in that I'm subconsciously trying to contort my trans identity to fit the rigid framework that seems to be my natural habit of mind (and which characterized my young adulthood for a while - I converted to traditionalist Catholicism). Not sure how to get out of this kind of thinking, probably by interacting with people. But I don't get out into meatspace very often and my mom forbade me from visiting the autistic friend simulator (4chan). Lemmy.blahaj seems very welcoming though, and I think this kind of discussion falls well within its scope.

I’m increasingly convinced that the very idea of some kind of absolute or canonical vision of womanhood is inherently sexist and oppressively dogmatic.

I may well be an unwitting, but inveterate sexist: my father certainly was, and watching him abuse my mother emotionally/psychologically (and sometimes physically) for decades probably did a number on me.

https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/jubilee

That went well over my head, if indeed there's anything of substance behind the academic jargon. The closest-to-being-intelligible part was the numbered list towards the end, and I immediately take issue with the first point.

  1. Performativity is about using action to convey symbolic meaning to other people.

I don't see other people as being involved at all. (To be fair, I never could figure out "other people;" in my former therapist's words I'm """probably""" on the spectrum, which might explain it). For instance, gender euphoria happens when, somehow suspending my disbelief, I catch a glimpse of myself and think maybe I could be a woman. There's no thought of conveying meaning to anyone, or moving through society in a different way. It's just a fleeting, momentary paradigm shift, gone as soon as I notice it when my analytical brain starts dissecting the myriad ways in which I could never be. Other people aren't involved, and the gender euphoria centers much more around physical characteristics of my body than around clothes or ornamentation. Physical characteristics which are, in effect, "hardwired" as feminine from an evolutionary perspective (with certain body proportions and other secondary sex characteristics correlating to appropriate hormone levels during puberty and indicating particular suitability for successful childbearing). (opinions may differ on this point, and I don't wish to make this the focus of conversation. I was taught this in college about a decade ago, and it seems eminently reasonable to me).

Maybe if I had FFS, breast implants, hip implants, and a vaginoplasty I could "fool" my brain into thinking I was a girl. But perhaps not permanently. I'm sure that cynical analytical asshole part of me would point out that I'm just a guy with an inverted benis, bags of saltwater slid beneath his chest, and metal plates screwed to his hips.

The best I can hope is to reincarnate as a proper girl. (and, thankfully, I'm convinced suicides don't reincarnate under the best of circumstances, if at all. Otherwise I'd be out of here like a shot).

I’m not sure if you want to hear exclusively from people who have detransitioned, or if perspectives from people who are still transitioning are also welcome.

All perspectives are very welcome, and thank you for your insightful comment. It gave me a lot to think about.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Thanks for explaining more. We apologise for acting so rashly and will try to give a better response soon.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 minutes ago

That's all right. I'm still exploring how I feel myself. Usually for me introspection about gender only goes so far as "I want to kill myself," so every post is an act of discovering and unpacking and interrogating my own beliefs. (I reserve the right to be wildly inconsistent and self-contradictory between posts 😛).