this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2025

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677

Democrats in denial over Trump defeat, voters say: ‘Haven’t learned the lessons’ (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

423 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?

“They did not answer the question,” he said.

“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”

“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I admit I just don't see a path forward.

Is inflation the reason they're upset at Democrats? The US had one of the lowest rates of inflation amongst the G7 (especially with food). Corporate greed drove much of the increase. Republicans are intent on removing any possible regulation that protects consumers, Democrats did what they could via the FTC, since they didn't have enough senate seats to pass any meaningful regulatory laws.

Is wage inequality the reason? Reaganomics is the primary reason for that, Republicans have been blocking every possible improvement for it via control of the senate and the filibuster.

Is it Israel? Certainly I can see that one, but Republicans have been responsible for devastating Iraq and Afghanistan, and will probably walk us into a conflict with Iran.

What messaging can the democrats do that would overcome the unrelenting right wing propaganda machines? What policies can they adopt that they don't already have? I just don't see a way to reach voters like the ones in this article.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (2 children)

The Democrat aristocracy do not care about winning.

They only care about marketing the disaster of their losses so that they can launder billions of dollars in "vote blue" spam campaigns.

All those donations are going somewhere - to "consultancy firms". To "ad agencies". And then they get to enjoy kickbacks from this mutual relationship.

THEY DON'T NEED TO WIN TO RAKE IN BILLIONS.

and so they don't even try.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago (8 children)

Corporations and Republicans control the media. Putin deployed psyops on the social media of the bar room and bowling alley crowd. They controlled the narrative and will continue to control it until people wake up and realize they have become wage slaves who have a shit-hole standard of living.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (1 children)

To the Left, to the LEFT!

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (6 children)

Hear me out, what if they try running an even more genocidal candidate.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well, the more genocidal candidate won I guess.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Winning is detrimental to the party.

At a certain point, they realized that they make more money when they lose. The end goal of both parties isn't to win, it's to make the most money for their members. The democrats just happen to have stumbled into a situation where they have a perverse incentive to fuck things up just enough to barely lose so that they can keep their funding up.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Unless and until we shut down the propaganda channels serving hostile foreign interests, it's going to be a long, painful struggle.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (19 children)

What funny is everyone knows for a fact what lesson they should've learned, and if you ask 3 people they will give you 5 contradicting answers, every single one of which will be the most important strategy advice that stupid dems don't see. It will usually can be boiled into "They need to focus on this specific issue and only on it, to the detriment of all the others".

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

We need to organize. The Democrats aren't going to be part of it, because, with very few exceptions, they're useless. Let's hope at least they stay out of the way instead of doing like Fetterman and kissing the ring.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

The only lesson to be learnt from this is that forgiving debts, pardoning marijuana offences, wanting fair elections, etc don't work.

The only lesson they could learn from this is that they weren't conservative enough.

Fuck that lesson.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (14 children)

They don't learn the lesson, because they don't want to. And your examples imo show the problem.

forgiving debts, pardoning marinuana offences

These are not solutions, they are bandaids that like a drug keep you dependent on politicians repeating them again and again. Which of course is nice when your only goal is to get relected, but longterm that magic wears off.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The only lesson they could learn from this is that they weren’t conservative enough.

I don't think this is even remotely the lesson.

The right wingers already go on social media spouting that "the libs" are socialist, sure, but that's just because it's what their media tells them.

The lesson should be that propaganda wins elections, not logical answers. You have to appeal to quick witty replies with even more quick witty replies. You have to use loads of smoke and mirrors to promise outcomes without any tangible methodologies.

The democrats should promise to fund the military... and then use the military funding for humanitarian ends like we did with covid vaccines. The line item looks great to dummy middle america voters to say "wow the democrats want a strong military" even though the spending really is to build homes for the poor or provide subsidized healthcare through federal military pop up hospitals (with contracted civilian doctors.)

You have to literally provide handouts about a year out from election time to subsidize a topic like gas prices leading up to the election. The day the elections are over you can remove all of those things and start replenishing it... so release that strategic reserve big time. Focus on extra subsidies in places where you can actually win the vote, so fuck deep red and deep blue. Hate to say it... the battleground is all that matters.

If you want to appeal to the common voter it can't be by pushing for educational values or refunds for people with degrees. It has to be refunds for people with high grocery bills, high utility costs. Hell, remove the SALT deduction entirely in the name of "small government" because that's one thing even lower class republicans think would be a bad move to raise... but this is still way too detailed for the ignorant voting masses to grasp... so you should probably say you are going to lower taxes rather than say you're upping it for billionaires. The latter is always assumed even though it never actually happens.

Bring out all the news about how republicans are actually raising taxes. How they actually result in higher gas costs, higher housing costs, higher grocery costs. Why the fuck "Tariffs" weren't brought out as MASSIVE tax increases for the common working person is bewildering to me! Dumpy loves tariffs but describe it in simple terms as a tax - IMPORT TAX - and suddenly it will be very unpopular. "Dumpy says tariffs are good!!!!" but the news is plastered with "import taxes called tariffs"... why are they raising taxes again? for common hard working people? "You mean i'm gonna have to pay more money at the grocery store AND the pump??!?!?!?"

Campaigning on city values isn't working because the battleground states aren't uber dense. You have to appeal to the rural people with promises that can be delivered in the short term and that will cost them in the long term, because they are HORRIBLE at gauging long term impact. They can only remember what just happened and what is happening now. Dumpy is promising that the future will be great, why are you promising that things are gonna be tough? Things are tough right now for most people, why are you saying that the economy is great? I know by many metrics we are succeeding but the complexity of economics goes over almost everyone's head. Instead you should have been campaigning on the fact that dumpy lowered taxes on the rich and that the rich didn't fulfill their end of the bargain and are stealing all the money from the hard working middle americans.

No die hard blue state is going to vote red so it's time to abandon intelligent values for dummy propaganda. Let's fucking go.

Oh and on the sidelines talk about the real policy you want to implement akin to project2025 which actually has the real DNC agenda, just like how P2025 is the GOP agenda.

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